Curious AF

#10 - Breaking Barriers: Leading in a Male-Dominated Industry - Kylie Kinsella

• Luke B

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Guest:  Kylie Kinsella, a Managing Director of Regent Holdings and the President of Pump Industry Australia, leading multiple companies with a strong vision for industry innovation and growth. With a wealth of experience in leadership and business strategy, she is a driving force in the sector. 

Host: Luke Biermann, Managing Director of Mechanical Seal Engineering Pty Ltd, Councillor of Pump Industry Australia, Forum Chair of Entrepreneurs Organisation Adelaide, and Founder of Hard Stuff Podcast

In this episode of the Hard Stuff Podcast, Luke interviews Kylie Kinsella, Group Managing Director of Regent Holdings and the newly appointed president of the Pump Industry Australia (PIA). Kylie shares her experience managing multiple companies under Regent Holdings, which includes businesses like Regent Pumps and DCS Manufacturing. The discussion covers her journey and strategies in handling a predominantly male industry, her method of dividing her time across different locations, and the importance of having a strong management team. Kylie also reflects on her personal growth, overcoming shyness, and facing biases as a woman in leadership roles. She explains her motivations for taking on the presidency of the PIA and reveals future plans for modernising the industry. The conversation provides insights into her leadership style, the challenges she faced, and her approach to creating a positive workplace culture that supports mental health.

ABOUT CURIOUS AF PODCAST

Curious AF is the evolution of what started as The Hard Stuff Podcast. Initially focused on guests who’d done hard things—ultra marathons, building businesses, overcoming personal challenges—it’s now becoming a broader platform to explore anything and everything I’m genuinely curious about.
The new direction is more personal and wide-ranging. I want it to feel like a space where I can follow my curiosity and have real conversations with people who inspire, challenge, or fascinate me.

For further information, contact:
Podcast Host - Luke Biermann
General Inquiries: hello@curiousaf.com.au
Instagram: @curiousaf.podcast

Luke B's video recording-2:

Hello and welcome to the Hard Stuff Podcast. Today, my guest is Kylie Kinsella. Kylie is Group Managing Director of Regent Holdings, which is a bunch of different companies, which she will explain herself in the episode. She has recently taken on the presidency for the pump industry, Australia, Kylie's awesome. She's very impressive. We had a fantastic chat about our industry how she manages so many businesses and kind of what it was like coming up in a male dominated industry.

If you enjoy this, please like and follow on any audio platform you are listening to it on. Let's get on with the show. I hope you enjoy. Thanks for listening.

Recording 18:

Kylie Kinsella, thanks for coming on the show. Thank you for inviting me. No worries at all. We met recently because you have taken on president in the pump industry Australia and I had no idea who you were and then kind of finding out a bit about your background and what you currently do in the industry. It's fairly impressive. So I thought I wanted to have you on the show and see if we can inspire some people. Thank you. Look forward to talking to you. Cool. So maybe if you just dive into your current position and what you're currently doing in the industry. And we spoke before we got started. And I think. What's also very inspiring about your story is, I can't think of an industry that's more male dominated than both the pump industry and manufacturing, I think even more so than construction and stuff like that. So yeah, looking forward to hearing your journey. so currently I'm the managing director for Regent Holdings. And under Regent Holdings sits some trading entities, um, the main ones being Regent Pumps, the first business. So, um, so there's Regent Pumps DCS manufacturing, which is a, um, a manufacturer of jetting trucks, um, combination units. Yeah. Um, then there's another smaller business called Matthew Davis, which is pipe valves and fittings. Um, there's I think I mentioned pump care. Pump care is like, um, so it's other sorts of technology. So, um, regents mainly centrifugal pumps where pump care does everything. Okay. Um, and then there's another small business called Regent Dynamics, which is, um, yeah, it goes on. Sometimes I have to check the list myself, you know, um, so yeah, it keeps me busy. Yeah. Awesome. And you were saying before, I mean, they're all in different locations. So how do you manage that? So I try to split up my week. It's not always perfect. sometimes it's mainly I sit at Regent pumps in Dingley, but. I try to do a day or two at DCS manufacturing and then the other businesses, they're the smaller ones. So I, it depends what I need to do. Yep. Yeah. The time spent, do whatever you need to do to keep all the gears and cogs moving. Correct. So I, it helps. I've got a management team mm-hmm In the two bigger businesses. Yep. And that helps me, but I still do a lot of the, still do a lot. Yep. Yep. Okay. And, um. You, uh, decided to take on presidency of the PIA? Yeah, that was, that was a bit of a nutty, yeah. Well look, we needed someone, we needed somebody fresh and dynamic. There was, there's been a few issues in the last few years. I think we've, it's still been a great experience, but just with, I guess a lot of the, um, older blokes that have been for years kind of moving on, it feels like there's been a bit of a lack of I sort of, the, the main driver for me was, Um, I was asked to do a woman in the industry presentation for the PIA, um, when Covid was on. Yeah, it was on Zoom. And John Insta rang me at that time and said, well, what impact can you make? Because I spoke to him about it being a boys club, and he said, well, what are you gonna do about it? So about the industry or the PIA Both, specifically? Both, yeah. Yeah. Without, without a doubt. They both are. Um, and then I got approached by, Joel, leading, acting as president at the time, and a couple of the committee members. I thought, is it time to put myself out there? I'm not naturally an extroverted person, so. Yeah, it was a big decision to put myself out there. Oh, I mean, the extrovert, I think that's the least of your worries. I think spinning 13 plates at once is probably the bigger issue. But if you understand my background, I've always been in the industry. Yeah. And all my colleagues have all been men. So, that wasn't the fear factor for me. Yep. Um, working with a male group. Yep. Um, cause it's all I'm used to. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, we spoke earlier about you being quite a shy child and you went to the UK for a few years. Yes. And you think So I went to the UK for and um, yeah, I had to put myself out there quickly otherwise it's sink or swim type situation and it, yeah, it sort of empowered me a little and then by the time I came back Um, yeah, I went into industry straight away, into pneumatics. Yeah. Yeah. And how was your experience being in a, being a woman in such a male dominated field? Well, I hadn't mentioned it to you earlier, but when I was in pneumatics, my boss had in wall, um, nerdy calendars. That's how. Oh really? Yeah. And you think back how inappropriate, but I still walk into workshops with, with that on there. When I think back, I thought about this the other day, I thought, Oh gosh, you know, I used to put out with that walk in and say we had a visitor. was probably the busiest person because I was in internal sales. He would ring me and say, Oh, can you make the tea and coffee? And I started saying, no, I can't, no, I can't, I'm too busy. So I, I might've been shy, but I had some backbone, I think. I think you need to, to be in an industry like this. And so I was doing internal sales and then I said to the owner at the time, I really want to try being on the road. Um, and he said, I don't think a woman can do that. You know, what if someone is rude to you or, yeah. And everyone can't deal with that. Yeah, exactly. So he only started me two days a week. And how long ago was this? Uh, so 95, 96. Okay. started doing that, you know, on the road selling and I really liked it. and then eventually you made me full time, but I remember being in that team of, uh, sales people. I think and I was the only female. What were you selling? Pneumatic gears like, um, air guns, pneumatic multi spindle nut runners, couplings, airline, all that sort of stuff. How did you fall into the industry? I don't know. I, I went for an interview and I got the job and it just went from there and then I, I had an interest. I. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot to learn. Yeah. I just got interested and I enjoyed it. So how did you find, you know, being a woman in an industry like this, um, I guess the, how were you received in, in, in sales and stuff like that? Were there any issues? No. There were, probably because I was the only one, I remember going into the Toyota plants at the time, Toyota and Holden and there wasn't any other women going in. And so they were very nice to me. Um. But I had to know a lot. Like I, I feel like I had to know more than everyone else because they'd, some guys would take me on in terms of product knowledge and stuff like that. As in test whether you're worthy to be in the position you're in. Yeah, and a lot of the gear I couldn't even lift because it was too heavy. So I'd have to try to convince someone to get onto my car, get in. Yeah, when I think back, it was interesting times. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I stayed in that job 10 years. I really like the job. Okay. And then where did that lead to? That led to, um, well I, I left cause I was just, I needed to do something else. So I, I left and I went into a product management role pumps, positive displacement pumps. But I remember even at the interview, my boss said to me at the time, I don't think you're the right person, but yeah, let's talk. That was how the interview started. Yeah. Yeah. And it sort of went from there. So. So, there was three product managers and I, me being one of them, the other two guys were engineers. I wasn't, um, 12 months later I was their boss, I was the team leader. And then it sort of, and then I got promoted to national sales manager, so, yeah. Yeah. You spoke about, um, for the interview, there being some issues with bosses asking, or I guess you being, uh, not wanting to. Yeah. And you didn't really be open about the fact that you wanted a family. Yeah. Because you thought it would negatively affect your career. I kept it very quiet. Okay. I never told, I was very quiet on who I was dating and what that might have meant because I used to get asked a lot, Oh, you might have a baby. So that meant you can't do this job. Yeah. And I didn't, I was young then and I didn't know what I wanted, but yeah, I kept things, I learned quickly to keep things. My private life, very quiet. Okay. Hmm. Do you think, I mean, from your perspective, has, has, I guess that stigma around women not being able to be in our industry, do you think that's lifted over recently, or do you think it's still heavily there? I think it's still there. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, if you look at the numbers, it's gotta be like, what, one out of a hundred? Yeah, I think it's still there. Yeah, I think women don't know, I think the challenge for women is, you, like, I'm a very much, A girly girl. Um, and I think, you know, women struggle to be themselves. you know, it's okay to be a girly girl and, and love pumps. Yeah, yeah. Or trucks or whatever else you're doing. Yeah. You know, you, you shouldn't have to change. I used to see women come and go in roles because they'd either try to be masculine and fit in with the guys. Or they just, they just didn't feel comfortable. Yeah. Well look, I think I, I guess I think there's a fear of bringing women into workplace like we have.'cause they think everything's gonna change and we're gonna have to change Yeah. Who we are. Yeah. So, so I guess coming in from a woman's perspective, you'll probably want to mirror. Yeah. So my older brother actually said to me, be yourself when you go for a job and just be who you are. Yeah. And I sort of, that sort of stuck with me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just be yourself. Yeah. It must be working, because you've continuously wrote up the recs. I don't know, I, yeah, with my current role, obviously I, I've been with this group for eight years, and I started as GM of one Okay. And Roger must have seen something in me, I don't know, he didn't communicate that. Um, it was only when he was close, he had pancreatic and passed away five years ago in April. We're in a meeting with all the lawyers and he just pointed to me when they asked, well who's going to take over? And he just pointed to me and I actually thought, is there someone behind me? You know, I looked around behind me and I thought, is he pointing to me? Yeah. Yeah. How old is the company, Regent Pumps? That was the first one, wasn't it? About 60 years old, yeah, because his father started Regent. How old? 60? Yeah. Okay, wow. It's an Australian company, isn't it? Yeah, that's right. So, interesting, because Roger and I are like and cheese. He was the autocratic manager, that old school, everything ran through him. And he knew I was not like that at all. You know, I talked to all my staff. That kind of leadership is very limiting, I think, when you get to a certain level. Yes. Because you become the bottleneck in every aspect of the business. Yeah, he was, he had unbelievable ideas, he created the group, very clever, but we're just very, very different. But what he did do is he had an accountant who is the other director of the businesses and he's amazing. And so I've got him, Malcolm, as constant support and he's just been amazing. Yeah. So how did you find that, um, handover period to actually start running everything? Um, I had Malcolm, so I was pretty lucky, because Malcolm had been with Roger 35 years. So Malcolm had all the history. You know, when I was trying to why, Um, Malcolm could come in and go, Oh, he did this because blah blah blah, you know. And even now, I speak to Malcolm most days. He's just, he's not in the businesses, but he is. Yep. So it's helpful. So have you implemented any change or anything since you've There's been so much. Yeah. Yeah. Just a minor, the first minor change was all the phones, especially at Regent, ran through him and his PA. Yeah. And no one was allowed to answer the phone. And so I feel like our industry is, uh, so behind in so many ways. Like I know people running huge businesses and They're still, you know, everything's handwritten. Yeah, they'll just handwrite it and give it to their assistant and stuff like that. That's what he did. I'm part of an organisation called the Entrepreneurs Organisation. I see some of the, you know, practices that some of these new dynamic businesses are running and then I look at the landscape of our current industry. Yeah, and you're like, we're not there. And it's the same thing with the PIA and that's why I'm so excited to kind of modernise exciting time. It is. Yeah. Yeah. But I feel that in the organisations that I represent of the way it was what's that? Sorry? Which is Roger, the way, you know, we're, we are doing so much change. Yeah, yeah. Well, I look, I think to there, I think there's a, where there's a certain aspect in most business where they need to pivot, right? So to, you need to be quite aggressive and, or not aggressive, but be, be dynamic and be able to run everything and maintain that. standard when the business is at a small level, but I think once you get to a certain level, I think that actually becomes, uh, an issue or, or, or a bottleneck and you, and you need to get somebody fresh in, it's going to modernize the business and be able to move it to the next level. Yeah. I don't know if he thought that. I don't know. I'm sure he didn't think that, but that's what, that's what I think naturally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know where he thought the business would go once he passed, I'm not But he, he gave me a lot of As in? His time. Okay. To train you up to the next level? Well, I didn't know it was training, but he sat me, so his office is right next to a boardroom. Yeah. And I sat in the boardroom. a desk 18 months, and I could hear everything. What do you mean you didn't have a desk? I didn't have a desk. He sat me on the boardroom table. Oh, you were at the boardroom. Okay. Yeah. And so I was close to him. Yeah. So that I could hear everything, and he'd have meetings. And he wouldn't really be listening. So it was a really odd way to, yeah, be introduced to a guy. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, it's a big jump as well. Did you find, as far as kind of managing and the business side of things, how was that jump for you? It was okay. It's hard to explain. Yeah. It was okay. I had, he had really good people. Uh huh. They didn't know how good they were, but he had really, really good people. Okay. And so it was just opening opportunities for them. Yeah. You know, when I released those phones and they're all picking up the phones and they're all, I remember my first meeting with them and I'm like, has anyone got any ideas? And I got crickets. But then if you know, down the T track, I could hear them all have a meeting on their own and laughing I'm like, oh yeah, I'm winning. Yeah, okay. They're talking. I'm winning. Yep. Yep. Yeah. So there was a bit of a resistance, not a resistance. They just didn't that they could say anything. Yeah. It was very run by the top down. Yeah. Approach. Yeah. I mean, that approach, it just means that the boss is going to have to work ridiculous hours forever because they're out there. Which he did. He worked weekends and he did the whole I couldn't do that. No. No. No. No. I don't think No. No. Yeah. Yeah. You know. That's another thing. I feel like I look at our industry, and maybe I'm wrong here, but I feel like our industry is very unique. It's dominated by a bunch of Uh, businesses where the boss just works crazy hours and refuses to delegate things. Yeah. It, it feels like it's a, a relic of a pastime. Yeah, I, I'd agree with that. Yeah. I was sort of lucky'cause I started off in PD pumps mm-hmm And they're a different breed to the water top. Okay. Yeah. And, um, they gave me a lot of time, I did a lot of training and Yeah. Okay. They gave me a lot of comments, so was similar age to me. Yep. And, um. Yeah, they helped me a lot get going on pumps. What was your position there? I was National Sales. Okay. So, I got to go overseas and um, train at some of the big companies. So I got to see, so it made it easy when I took over at Regent because I could see what it could become. Yeah. Because I'd been to Wilden and Blackmore and Movex and Okay. And I'd spent, you know, I'd go there for a week people. Yeah. And, uh, so it gave me a really good insight to pump manufacturing. Yeah. But I didn't know that at the time. I didn't know I'd need that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So, yeah. Yeah, look, I want to get back to, you know, you going to, to London, I guess, and what you got out of that trip. Yeah, I, I guess realized I could do it on my own. I had to, I went to London because I'd been gripped onto by my parents who kept me close. Um, my father was particularly protective, and I come from a close family, and I needed to sort of get out and be on my own for a bit. Yeah. I think Dad would have protected me forever. Yeah, it's hard to put it into words. No, no, no, it makes sense. I mean, yeah, you need to learn through, I don't want to say school of hard knocks, but yeah. Yeah, you know, even after I finished Year 12, I still had curfew. I still had, you know. Oh really? Yeah. So, very protective. I have two brothers, an older and a younger. Yeah. And a lot of pressure on my older brother to sort of look after me all the time, make sure she's alright. Or she can go out if she's with you. All that sort of stuff. Yeah. So yeah, think's the secret to your success in the Just hard work? Hard work Yeah, and I think because I had two brothers They were pretty tough on me. Yeah, it's the middle child. They always say I was dad's favorite, but Yeah, I don't think anyone could have been harder on me than they were so it sort of taught me You know, working with all men, bounce a bit. Yeah, not to let it worry me. Yeah, because they'd already Done that to me if that makes sense, you know, there was a roasting meal. There's always a lot going on in our house Yeah, yeah, we have a tight family. So You spoke, you spoke previously about going out to sales calls and um, kind of being ignored and you know, them going directly to, to the male, even though you were in the senior position. Yeah. I mean, how, how did you, how did you find that and how did you not let the, like for me that would have been such a deep sense of injustice that I would have just gotten angry and flip my lid, I guess. It didn't worry me. I used to think, Oh yeah, my time, I'll let them talk it out. It gave me time to listen. I'd always have my iPad or whatever and I would be taking notes. Yeah, I didn't let it get me down or anything like that. I used to just see it as time to absorb what was going on and listen. Yeah. And um, I think I'm a good reader of people. Yeah. So I used to try to weigh up. what I'm hearing. Yeah, we said before about being shy potentially makes you a better people reader. Do you want to dive into what you were saying there? I think when you're shy, you tend to sit back you're reading the room because you're, you're anxious. You're naturally anxious. You're reading the room because you're desperately worried that everybody's thinking negatively about you. Well, it wasn't always, it wasn't about me. It was always about, Do I think I can do that? Mm-hmm I always have this thing, like for example, when I became president of the PIAI sent to my family group saying Hi all. You know, I've just become the president of the PIA. I hope I can do it. So it is that sort of, it's always about me. Yeah. yeah. Can I do it? Mm-hmm Even though I, deep down I know I can, but it's still that shyness that. Yeah. It's always that reservation. Yeah. You know? Do I have that ability? Do I Yeah, it's interesting. Am I going to cut it? Yeah. Whereas I don't think a lot of the men Like, I've seen, I've seen, for example, um, in salary negotiations, how the men are to how the women are. Interesting. And the men, and the men go in confident, you know, they're ready, whereas the women are always, do you think, do you think I'm worth that? You think there's a Do you think that's specifically because it's a male dominated industry, or do you think that's just in general? I don't know, because I haven't worked in an industry where it isn't male dominated, so it's all I know, but I see it definitely at wage review time, I see the women going quite differently. Okay. The men are always, yeah, very forward with what they want. Mmm. Yeah. I think so. Yeah, I think, I mean, I used to be very shy when I was young and I think you're absolutely right. It, it, it makes you, and maybe this is anxiety, but it makes you more self aware of what kind of what's going on and be able to read what other people are thinking. Yeah, but I do think it makes you a better manager because may not speak up in that meeting, that you can see their thinking. You can see the cogs are turning and you think they want to say something, but they're too scared to say something because someone else is so dominant. Yeah. So I'm always very aware in meetings, especially in my own team. So how would you tackle something like that? I give them the opportunity to speak, I'll, I'll quieten down the loudest person in the room. Yeah. I mean, that's usually me. You know, I have to, like, I. I've, I've got the feedback that I kind of dominate meetings a bit too much and I'm really actively trying to, trying to work on that. And I think, I think part of it is like if things go silent, I feel like I need to be able to fill that void. So. Oh, do you? Yeah. Well, I guess my sales training taught me just to wait it out, stay silent and wait it out. Yeah. Yeah. I'll just wait. I can wait forever. Interesting. Just let someone, you know, encourage someone to speak. I can just wait, wait, wait. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit of a tactic. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, so, so you spoke about, I, I guess maybe dive into more, I guess the fear about letting people know about your desire to have a family and stuff like that. Do, do you think that fear was, was kind of justified within the industry or, I think so, yeah. Yeah. So. I had a, a major relationship breakdown in my early thirties. And so then I was like, ooh, I don't know if I'm going to be able to have kids now. So I met my husband when I was later. I didn't get married until I was 37. And by that stage, um, we tried IVF. But in saying I tried IVF, I used to go to appointments at 7 o'clock in the morning. So then, I was never late for work. Okay. I'd go, have my blood test, get everything I needed, get my injections, all that. So, do you think that was through a fear that if, that you didn't want to appear, that the fact that you're a woman doing these things is going to affect your ability to do a good job? I think so. Okay. And I, I didn't, careful not to show a weakness. Mm hmm. Um, I think, yeah, I'm really careful not to show a weakness or a perceived weakness in a peer group, in a management peer group. So, so I kept that very quiet because that would show that I'm, Maybe human or softer. I don't know. Yeah, but I mean, I think vulnerability which sounds like you're talking about potentially You didn't want to be vulnerable. No, but I think Not being vulnerable potentially hinders being able to have a connection and build relationships with people Yes, I used to keep that very private. Mm hmm So I'd go at seven o'clock and have what I needed my blood test, whatever and go to work and no one knew I remember going to Perth for work Getting on the plane, having my letter, because I was still having injections, and, uh, You know, the staff didn't know. I'd a break, go to the toilet, inject myself. Yeah. So, yeah, I was very quiet about it. Yeah. And then How do you think that affected you? I mean, that sounds kind of lonely. It's hard. It's a bit hard. Yeah, and my Do you think our industry, you would still do that today? No. No? I don't think so now, but then Okay. It depends. Are there bosses like you? Are there bosses like me? For some people there isn't. For some people there is. I think it's shifting. Um, but again, I constantly think like our whole industry is a relic of the past. I feel like we're 25 years behind it everywhere else. And I find the same. I mean, I speak a lot about mental health and, and, and stuff like that. And, you know, most other people that I speak to that have businesses, just like, it's natural. for them to be able to speak about mental health within their business and be able to connect with people. Do I still feel this weird, I guess, stigma? And I wonder how much that's me and I wonder how much that's the industry. Um, you know, I feel like there is a lot of, I've got to be careful not to get myself in trouble, but there's a lot of big egos, I think so too. Yeah. yeah, definitely think so. Yeah. Cause it, yeah, I've attended a few of those meetings. Where you know that, that's there. You know, I, initially when Roger passed and I was going to meet some of the larger people in the industry, bigger people, they'd, I had questions like, well, who are you? Who are you? How long, do you know anything about pumps? That sort of questioning? Yeah. Yeah. You know? Though, in credit, some of the men from other businesses would step in and go. Don't, she's been in pumps for years. Don't say that. Yeah, I think it is shifting. I mean, what did you say before about somebody called you and said, we need to speak to a man? Tell me about that. I've had customers, you know, upset customers that are going, I need to speak to a man. And I'm like, why? I don't, it's not funny, but I'm laughing because it's just like so outrageous. I'm the boss of the men, like, do you still really want to speak So how do you handle situations like that? I just stay firm. And then eventually, they can't, they end up liking me because I just stay firm, and then they'll keep asking for me. It's interesting how it turns. I don't hear stories like that. I feel like if something like that happened in another industry, that person would be dragged out of the back and shot, you know what I mean? We just have this like, again, it's not really that funny, it's actually kind of sad, but it's just like. You know, we, I feel like it's just so, so backwards in so many ways. When I think back it is pretty funny. Yeah. It's, I'm glad that you can laugh about it because it is, it is pretty funny that some guys on the phone wanting a man, like Yeah, odd, really, really odd. But yeah, it is. Yeah, and same on, you know, when I've been on site and there's been questions and I can solve the problem, but I'll stand back and let it all. And then I'll go in at the last minute and go, that's actually not going to work. You need to do this, and then they're, Oh, Oh, you do know. Yes, I do. Yeah. Yeah. It's very strange. Interesting. Yeah. But in saying yes, it's been hard being a woman, but it's also had its advantages because the people who had met me remember me. So like when I fly into state now. I hadn't, I hadn't gone and seen customers after my national role. I got busy internally, especially with Roger passing and all that. But as soon as I'm back out, people want to see me cause they remember me. I remember my name. Cause there isn't any females. So yeah, you're the only one. Exactly. So you do get remembered as well. Um, Um, so I've got some long, like really long Well, you definitely stand out. Cause like I said, you came up on my radar and I was like, Oh, this is a woman. Like, I was like, this is, this is fantastic. And then I started looking into you a bit, I was like, Oh my God, this is unheard of. Yeah. So, you know, I've got good because I was the only as well. Interesting. Yeah. And they tend to tell me stuff like, I try to, you know, I don't have that personal connection with people and they tend to confide in me about stuff. You know? Well I'm sure they're not going to tell a bloke that. A bloke to a bloke. Whereas a bloke to a female will tell you that softer thing, that personal thing. Again, like it's, I think it's bloke to bloke in our industry, but yeah, I definitely understand what you're saying. Yeah. So it makes forming relationships easy. Okay. they get the I want to talk more about, um, kind of how you manage to manage so many businesses at once. What does that look like from a practical, practical level? Uh, it can be intense, cause you've got ideas for every business. Yep. trying to get them all through. Um. Well, I guess. Oh, sorry. Keep going. Yeah, so I have my management teams, they're fantastic. Um, they do a lot. I mean, you, you'd have to be pro, you know, really good at delegation, which no. No, I'm not too bad. I'm not too bad. I'm working on that. I still do a lot of the doing, but they do a lot of the doing too. Um, they're all quite new. Managers, in terms of the level of management they're now, um, doing. So, I'm trying to train them up to be the best they can be. And I love when I see them growing and, yeah, that gives me a lot of joy. Awesome. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Cool. So you've got management, uh, management teams in two of the larger business? Yes. So we meet monthly, but I pretty much Okay. So that's a calls, isn't it? When I think about that. It's a lot. So there's four in each business. So, um, with split roles, but yeah, I speak to them all a lot. Okay. Yeah. When I think about it, my, my office is like a revolving door. Yep. Yep. So what do you see your position in, as just basically keeping all the cogs together? I think so, yeah. It's always the bigger picture. responsible for the bigger picture. Vision. Yeah. Strategy. Making sure that we're actually moving towards that strategy and not getting lost in the weeds on a day to day basis. I think, um, because they're quite new management teams, they're a couple of years in. Hopefully they'll get more into the strategy and I can Was there management teams in position before you started? No, no. There was a couple of GMs. Yeah, there's a whole, whole story behind that, but Oh, I'm interested in it. Oh! Unless it's, uh I can't say too much, but yeah. Um, oh, cause I sold one of the businesses died. Yep. selling one of the companies which is called Spoutback. So that went to a company called Booker Municipal. The managing director of Booker Municipal was very good to me through the sale. Um, he, because Roger just passed and we, we probably had another four or five months to go because such a large business that there was teams for everything. So there was a HR team, an accounting Legal team. So I had to keep meeting with all the teams, and Malcolm was helping me on the side, but he realised that I was it the sale, and I was dealing with all these teams that they were putting to me. And so he gave me a lot of time, he gave me a lot of insight into, know, how to run things. He was very good to me as well. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Any influences from outside the industry? Not really. I wonder if she's so colloquial. I feel like nobody branches out to her. No. I'm very lucky my mum was a general manager at Tabcorp. Okay. So she, had a full on role herself. And my brother, my older brother runs his own business. And my younger brother's in sales, sales. So, within my family, my husband's an accountant. financial controller. So, I've got a lot of people I can tap into. Yeah. That, that give me ideas without really going into specifics with them. If I need an ER, I can, you know. Yeah. I've got means to tap in. So, yeah, quite a talented family pool, I think. Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, yeah, very lucky. Feelings about the PIA moving forward. What's the plan? I, uh, I think we're going to get a lot done in subcommittees. So that's why our last meeting, I think I, I'm like, does everyone have a job? Has everyone got a team? Has everyone, cause I think we'll get a lot done with the strengths of each person. We've all got different strengths. I just think there was a kind of a lack of structure. Yeah. And I would, yeah. You know, and I think if everyone does a bit, then we'll do a lot together. Yep. So, I'm hoping that works. We'll see how we go in March when we have our next meeting. Yeah, should be good. Yeah. Um, overseas training. Overseas training, yes. Where have you been? What have you done? I've been to France, the US, Germany. Are these all through pump companies? Yeah, so, um, pump companies and I sold, um, meters as well, so, gear. Mm hmm. and all those sort of, so I learned about those as well. Yeah. So, I was pretty lucky, really. I used to get sent to do all the training and then come back and train the staff. Okay. And, um, I used to have so much fun on those trips. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. That was so good to me. Yeah. Yeah. So, it was, yeah, positive experience. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah, I, I think that's something that, you know, we lack as a, kind of a small business. We don't have that kind of global network to, to reach out for training and it's funny, Through LinkedIn and all that sort of stuff. You know, I, when the article went out about the PIA, a lot of the overseas manufacturers that I went to visit, those people wrote back to me and said, Oh wow, that's so exciting. You know, it's good to hear. Yeah, so really positive. it's nice, isn't it really? Yeah. It's good. Maybe because I was the only woman going. Because they used to go in teams, and I was always with the Asian. Asian distributors. Yep. was always the only female. So, yeah, they'd look after me. I'd be in the groups training. And I remember doing pump training in France and we'd been there the whole week. And I felt like, oh, every day was like a school day where we were learning, you know, systems and all that sort of stuff. And they'd say, has everyone got it? And I'd be like, no. And they're like, don't worry, we'll go back over it, you know. They persisted with me. Yeah. Yeah. Which is good. Awesome. Um, the, the speech that you did or the presentation you did about women in the industry. How did that go? What was that about? Uh, it was just about the current numbers was about, are you supporting, as a business leader, are you supporting up and coming women? Yeah. That might work for you, that might have an interest. I think people have to look outside of, like, if someone hadn't have looked outside of, I didn't have an engineering degree. Yeah. But I had an ability to learn and a willingness and a motivation. I think sometimes we've got to look out of the norm. people an opportunity, rather than just look at their qualifications on a piece of paper and go, Oh, they're good for the job or they're not good for the job. Yeah. You know, I think there's more to hiring people than just looking at the piece of paper. So what do we look at? You can't teach motivation, so if it. Yeah. They'll have, they'll. Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, so I used to hire off skills. So you find somebody who's got the skillset. But it just, it never worked because I think the most important, um, attributes of an employee are personality. Right? Yeah. So now it's. Personality test, personality test, personality test, and we'll, we'll, we'll figure out the training side of it afterwards, right? Yeah. So I've been doing things like, you know, psychological personality tests and stuff like that. And is that working for you? Yeah. It's really good. It's really good. Um, like there's companies that do it that you can outsource to. Uh, the base gives you a fee and you can send it out and, um, basically it'll, it gives you a bunch of. of my head, I'm not going to remember all, but it gives you a bunch of like this, you know, personality traits. And then you can use that to see where and when they'll fit within the organization. And then it's a good way of looking at it. That's a fantastic way. Yeah. I, a lot changed when you start hiring people to fit in because I mean, the biggest issue with hiring is. It's, you know, like personality, so motivation, stuff like that, like you said, and a culture fit. I mean, they're the big two. And I think anything else can kind of be trained. I mean, obviously there's super specific jobs, you know, like engineering and stuff, which you need, but a lot of it can, especially within our industry can be taught. Yeah, I think so. I, I always. By the time someone's got to me, and in front of me, I think, I know you can do the job. It's just whether, are you motivated? Are you going to fit? Are you going to fit? Yeah. You know, I've had people say to me, I hired someone recently for operations at Regent. And he said to me, you didn't ask me that much. I didn't need to. I felt like I'd got you there. You had all the attributes that we needed in terms of skill and qualification. I just needed to know. All those things. Yeah. Are you that person? It's going to fit into our organization. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I don't like that I can read people. It can drown, it can bring me down a little. Yeah. Because I can see in meetings well and I think, ooh. You can feel it. Yeah. And I hate that. I wish I could shut that down sometimes. Well, it's something that I've, I've, I feel like I've, Um, sucked out over the years and missed a lot of red flags in the hiring process. Um, so something I've implemented is I'll make sure the leadership team or management team, whatever you want to call it, um, they go through the interviewing process as well. You know, um, so you've got some extra eyes. Yeah, because I think it's a weakness of mine. Um, and I do find. Uh, like we, we got a HR manager and, and yeah, she's fantastic and she picks just no way that I Yeah. It's been a real godsend, but I, I sometimes, I wish I'cause okay, I can go into a meeting and I can, I can feel the energy and I think, ugh. Oh really? Yeah. And then, and then that's what you focus on and it gets you into a Yeah. Whereas I wish sometimes I could just. Just shut it down and be a lot Yeah. Okay. You know, interesting. Yeah. Cause people tend to tell me all sorts of things and I, and I sometimes wish I could shut that Okay. Yeah. What do you mean by that? Um, their problems become my problems. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if it's the nature of what we do now and people, it's changed, hasn't it? People, it has changed. Expectations of their boss have changed. Look, it definitely has, and I think in some ways it's a good thing, but I think as a boss you need to be able to pick and choose what you accept, right? So, you know, I, I, I want to have some level of understanding about how everyone's mental health is. Yeah, I get that. Um, but you don't, you, you've got to pick and choose because if you're managing, let's say like 12 people, like for you, 60, I mean, everyone's, there's going to be so many people with problems. And if you allow yourself to get sucked into every little issue. It can really weigh you down. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, but I think mental health's really, really important. Being happy at work's really important. Yeah, so how do you kind of put a focus on that within your, uh, organizations? I try to make it a really positive culture. I'm trying to think how I do that, but, um, you know, I'm always in early. I'm always, Always approachable, always my doors open, people can come and talk to me directly. I get annoyed if one of the managers says, Oh, she's too busy for that, she's too busy for you. That really annoys me because I'm never too busy. I'm never too busy to someone who needs to So how do you filter out the time wasters? Um, my EA is awesome. She'll read it and go, she'll come in and say, Oh, Kylie, you know, she'll, uh, give it the block if she needs to. She's, um, she's great. She's really direct and yeah, she's when I'm mulling over things for too long, she's a lot more, what are you doing? Like, you know what to do. Just move. You know, we've got to go. She's sort of like that. I love that. Awesome. Yeah. It's Kylie Kinsella. Thanks for coming on the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me.