#16 How Failure and Outsourcing Saved My Business with Juen Phie

In this episode, Juen Phie shares his extensive experience in the business world, starting with his early days studying and working in accounting, to his adventures and challenges in Malaysia. Juen recounts his attempt to establish a Boost Juice-like business in Malaysia, subsequent sales roles, and a mentor-mentee relationship that influenced his business approach. He dives into the importance of sales skills and the value of learning from failures. Juen discusses his journey back to Australia, starting his own accounting firm, and the transformative impact of outsourcing work to the Philippines. He elaborates on the cultural nuances and recruitment strategies associated with outsourcing and shares personal insights on leadership, resilience, and the pursuit of business growth through strategic co-ownership and employee investment.

Key Takeaways: 

• The brutal reality behind Juen’s first failed ventures
• How a mentor’s tough love changed everything
• The cultural shift that made outsourcing work
• Tactical tips on hiring, training, and retaining global talent
• Why Juen’s business philosophy is rooted in gratitude and long-term impact

About the guest:

Juen Phie is a seasoned Chartered Accountant and entrepreneur with over two decades of experience guiding businesses through growth, reinvention, and transformation. His journey, from launching ventures in Malaysia and learning hard lessons through failure, to building a purpose-driven accounting firm supported by a loyal offshore team in the Philippines, is a testament to resilience, leadership, and vision. Juen combines sharp financial acumen with a deep commitment to empowering people, offering more than just advice, he delivers transformative, values-led guidance that drives sustainable success for both clients and his team.

ABOUT CURIOUS AF PODCAST

Curious AF is the evolution of what started as The Hard Stuff Podcast. Initially focused on guests who’d done hard things—ultra marathons, building businesses, overcoming personal challenges—it’s now becoming a broader platform to explore anything and everything I’m genuinely curious about.
The new direction is more personal and wide-ranging. I want it to feel like a space where I can follow my curiosity and have real conversations with people who inspire, challenge, or fascinate me.

For further information, contact:
Podcast Host - Luke Biermann
General Inquiries: hello@curiousaf.com.au
Instagram: @curiousaf.podcast

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 0:18 Diving into the Business Journey
• 1:56 Venturing into Malaysia
• 2:34 The Boost Juice Concept
• 3:48 Learning the Art of Selling
• 9:10 Character Forever: A New Venture
• 17:42 Starting an Accounting Firm
• 20:50 Outsourcing to the Philippines
• 28:54 The Importance of Process Documentation
• 34:48 Giving Back to the Team
• 36:32 Reflecting on the Journey
• 36:48 Transforming Lives in the Philippines
• 37:56 Co-Ownership and Business Ventures
• 46:56 Training and Retention Strategies
• 57:47 The Importance of Values and Communication
• 1:00:17 Concluding Thoughts and Future Vision

Transcript

**Luke:** Juen Phie What a way to start the day. That was fantastic. A run and a sauna. I think we're gonna have like that inaugural sweat through the whole session. Okay. I wanna talk to about outsourcing. I know you've got a really awesome story. You've got a lot of experience in outsourcing, but I thought we'd start today just kind of going through your business journey.

'cause I know you've had a, had your fingers in a lot of pots over the year and you've got a lot of experience in different areas of business. Yep. So if we could just dive into your journey. How'd you start? What businesses have you worked in, stuff like that.

**Juen Phie:** Sure. So,

I guess a bit of background. when I went to university, I also concurrently studied accounting at the same time.

So by the time I finished university. I actually had my university degree, bachelor of commerce accounting. I also had three years full-time work experience, so I worked full-time and at the same time, I was crazy enough to actually do my chartered accounting as well.

[00:01:00] So 

normally you do it not concurrently, but back to back.

So you finished your university, you get work experience, and then you go and do your chartered 

**Luke:** accounting. So

what's the difference? Because, 'cause I, yeah, I, you know, I don't know anything about this from the outside looking in. Yeah. I see that some accounting firms have chartered in front of the name because I dunno what that means.

**Juen Phie:** sure. So, once you've done your degree, it's a postgraduate qualification. So it's, it's a further study. It's almost like an MBA. Okay.

You need to be part of one of the accounting associations, whether it's CPA or the Chartered Accountants or the National Institute of Accountants. And, and then you can have your own accounting firm.

So it's just a postgraduate qualification for, for accounting. And so, you know, 23 years old when, when I got all the study that you can actually do that's where I ran away from the accounting profession. So I ran away

after all that.

Yeah, because you get burnt 

**Luke:** out.

Yeah. 

**Juen Phie:** Like, you're not, you, you're not supposed to have done it that way. So, so that's where I, I ran, ran away from accounting [00:02:00] and got married at the time and then went to Malaysia. So my wife is, is, is Malaysian and she hadn't been back for, for about five years. So, so I thought it was a good idea. Take a break from accounting, go to Malaysia.

**Luke:** like moved or on holiday?

**Juen Phie:** oh 

**Luke:** dunno, 

**Juen Phie:** it was, it was 

**Luke:** uncertain

book a ticket 

**Juen Phie:** book a ticket, went back and in the end stayed there for four years.

We had saved up some money and toured around with the idea of setting up a business in, in Malaysia.

And so, sorry, what were you doing at the time?

you doing at the time? With the idea of setting up 

**Luke:** a 

business Oh.

But what, but what were you doing before you set up the business as far as work?

Nothing.

Okay. So I just went to Malaysia with this idea of doing a business.

Yeah. Awesome.

**Juen Phie:** Trying to recreate Boost juice.

Do the boost juice concept in, in, in Malaysia. Wow.

Had a little bit of money and that's when I realized just because you're an accountant doesn't mean you know anything but 

business.

**Luke:** Yeah. Okay.

**Juen Phie:** you're an accountant doesn't mean you've got the balls to actually invest your own 

money 

in the 

**Luke:** business. 

Yeah. ' 

**Juen Phie:** cause accounting comes easy and it's, it's time versus money. 

**Luke:** It's one of the many things you need 

**Juen Phie:** positive day one. If you do it, you don't have much [00:03:00] risk.

So, realized, oh shit, you know,

didn't

have the balls to sink the money into a business.

Then

walked around saying to people, what else can I do? So this is where if you go to Malaysia and you say, what else can I do? I wanna do business, then everyone looks on your forehead commission sales 

agent. 

**Luke:** Yeah.

Okay.

**Juen Phie:** So, 

**Luke:** So, well, I'm very curious about, so how far did you get along the line with this boost Juice?

Like, did you, you made a business plan, stuff like 

that? I

got a 

**Juen Phie:** business plan. Started looking at supplies, started looking at site locations. Got 

close 

**Luke:** to,

and then reality sunk in. And you went Oh, 

**Juen Phie:** yeah.

Yeah. that's, that's where, when the rubber meets a road, you know, if you're not destined for it, then, then you're not destined for it.

So, What then happened after that was, did a couple of years selling selling property, selling multi-level marketing, Amway, 

and 

just, selling.

And the last thing that I sold was real estate. So I was also here, here you are a, a qualified charter accountant in Malaysia, trying to sell property in a busy subway, in a busy shopping center, in a busy bank trying to sell. And that's where I started [00:04:00] learning the art of 

selling

**Luke:** very steep 

**Juen Phie:** learning 

curve.

Yeah. Yeah. 'cause that, that was all commissioned. Then, then after that I attended a, a conference. That was all about how do you set up a business with little or no 

**Luke:** money.

I just wanna dive back. What do you think you got out of that sales training? 'cause sales is such an important fucking skill. Mm-hmm. And I think it really touches on kind of all aspects of your life. Like, you know, being able to have the, have conversations with people, I think is, is the main thing that I got outta selling.

And, and it, it just, yeah. It improves kind of everything in your whole life. I think learning to sell is so important if you wanna do anything.

**Juen Phie:** So, the journey of sales, that 

first stint at sales was all 

about 

hard, 

high pressure 

sales.

**Luke:** Okay.

**Juen Phie:** You cannot let them leave the booth without signing a contract.

**Luke:** And No,

**Juen Phie:** No, no, no, no. You can't leave. Yeah, you gotta stay. No, no, no, no. You can't leave. You gotta stay. That property is good for you. Sign it on a dotted line right now.

No, you can't 

catch 

your train. 

Yeah. 

No, you can't go home. No. You 

**Luke:** can't 

see 

the 

property.

And that's the nature of the industry. I would've [00:05:00] would imagine it Well,

**Juen Phie:** that's just 

what it 

**Luke:** was. 

**Juen Phie:** Learning 

through that system of 

**Luke:** selling. Wow.

**Juen Phie:** So

after attending this conference about how do you set up a business with little or no 

**Luke:** money, 

**Juen Phie:** so 

why wouldn't you Right.

That, that sounds fantastic. I then got into, then I approached the person who ran those workshops at that time and I approached him and said, look, I'm in Malaysia. I'm not doing 

**Luke:** anything. 

**Juen Phie:** Well, I am trying to do something, but I dunno what I'm doing, but I haven't heard anyone say the things that you've been saying.

**Luke:** saying.

**Juen Phie:** Can I just shadow you? 

Can I be your apprentice? And so he was 

**Luke:** like, 

yeah, okay.

Just outta curiosity, is this the bloke that, that I met over in Malaysia?

Yes. 

**Juen Phie:** Interesting.

Yes. So he was very formative. So he took me down the journey of the next round of selling. 

so, I then went down the pathway of being his 

**Luke:** apprentice, 

**Juen Phie:** and he had some businesses.

He was a serial entrepreneur, he had some businesses that weren't doing too well, and it was our job to turn those businesses around. And so we did successfully, [00:06:00] and that's where we started learning. His way of selling. His way of selling was very educational. His way of selling was, it wasn't ever a pressure, it was always a decision making.

This is option one, this is option two. Whatever you want is up to you. But it's also what I've now 

**Luke:** Robert 

**Juen Phie:** Cini he, he had this book called The Psychology of Influence, and, but he's also got this book about the persuasion, how to persuade someone so that you pre-sell 'em before the moment 

to 

**Luke:** sell 

them.

Okay.

**Juen Phie:** So he was actually very good at that of staging the seminar, staging the presentation, staging everything 

**Luke:** so 

that 

**Juen Phie:** by the time the decision time came. 

it was already. Yes. It was time to make a decision. 

So it was a 

**Luke:** lot

**Juen Phie:** more

soft selling than hard selling.

So

I got to see both sides of that. 

So, this is 

**Luke:** where um, it's so interesting. So this guy has had a bunch of businesses and a few of them had issues and you went in and to try 

to 

**Juen Phie:** those 

around.

Yes. Because if you wanna turn around any business, you can't do it 

**Luke:** But cut 

cost cutting. 

**Juen Phie:** You can't do it from an accounting point of view.

Accountants 

**Luke:** don't 

see 

it.

**Juen Phie:** The [00:07:00] only way to turn around a business that's struggling through sales. 

It was like revolution. Like 

you can see it on paper, but what does it mean and the struggle it takes to actually 

do it. 

Not easy. Yeah. The struggle it takes to actually go out there and sell, to make that business work. 

That's it. 

Rubber emits a road. If you can't do it, that's it. You're 

**Luke:** gone.

Yeah. I'm al I'm always envious of some businesses, like, so my business is exactly the same, like my limit to growth is all sales.

You see some businesses, like, I feel like a lot of trade businesses, like electrical businesses and stuff like that, they're limited by other, there's so much work out there. They're limited by staff and stuff like that.

**Juen Phie:** it's funny um,

This is 

**Luke:** is where 

the 

accounting 

hat 

comes I'm probably pissed off a lot of electricians by I saying just that

**Juen Phie:** even though the workers out there, they're, the biggest issue then becomes efficiency of labor. Efficiency of systems efficiency

because there's,

there's a lot of trades that actually still don't make

**Luke:** Well spot on because they're not in a niche. Yeah. You need, need to have a high level of efficiency because you've got, you know, 500 other people gnawing at your [00:08:00] footsteps. So the game becomes something very different at that stage.

Correct, correct.

**Juen Phie:** so my, my mentor at the time went through a partnership 

**Luke:** split

**Juen Phie:** and,

and he just turned around to me one day

**Luke:** business or personal business. Yep.

**Juen Phie:** So his business went to a partnership split, and then he basically turned around one day and said, look, June, I'm starting again. I'm starting from fresh. I know you spent a lot of time in this business up to you. If you wanna stay with him or come 

**Luke:** with me 

**Juen Phie:** up to you, 

or you wanna do your own thing, the choice is yours.

I'm just letting you know as of 

**Luke:** tomorrow, 

**Juen Phie:** I'm not 

**Luke:** part 

of 

this. 

**Juen Phie:** And so we had to make our own decision what we wanted to do. And so we followed him. we followed him and we saw how he rebounded overnight 

**Luke:** all 

through 

sales. Okay? 

**Juen Phie:** You know, went from zero to a million bucks, basically. Like, it was amazing. 

So 

in that whole no process, he also went to us and said, look, June, you have now proven yourself as a good apprentice.

Now you've graduated. If you wanted to be a business partner, happy to be Okay. So were you salaried at the time? No. So what 

were 

**Luke:** how 

were you 

making Commission. 

Commission. Ah,

**Juen Phie:** if, didn't make 

**Luke:** make a sale, 

we didn't 

pay. So you were almost a contractor sales [00:09:00] to him? Yeah. Correct. But, but also, I guess, you know, 

I mean, 

was 

it outspoken that he was kind of a men he was a mentor mentee relationship?

yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yes. Very much. very much. 

**Juen Phie:** So in, in the end we proposed to him a business called Character Forever. Character forever. We, we identified a niche market in Malaysia at the time, 

**Luke:** which was 

**Juen Phie:** Malaysians wanted their kids to grow up smart and successful.

They would send their kids to a lot of tuition school, but they wouldn't send their kid, but they would just grow up to become 

**Luke:** smart 

delinquents.

Mm-hmm.

**Juen Phie:** Because they didn't have any character because their parents were too busy going off working, 

**Luke:** they 

weren't 

home Okay. So they, they, yeah. So they get a high level of education, but they didn't have the, the other aspects. Yep. So

**Juen Phie:** So we, we proposed to Thomas this concept 

**Luke:** where 

**Juen Phie:** what we do is we, we set up a business and the business was gonna all about character 

building. 

Teaching people value, trust, trustworthiness, courage, you know, respect. Teach them all the things that parents don't necessarily teach at home because they're just too 

**Luke:** busy. 

**Juen Phie:** [00:10:00] And so same sort of philosophy of no money down. Sell the idea, you know, propose to a few different people. Here's an idea. We didn't lie to them. We just said to them, this is a pure idea. We don't know if it's gonna work 

**Luke:** or not, 

**Juen Phie:** but this is how we're gonna string along on how we're gonna, you know, do the children's side, how we're gonna do the center side, how we're gonna do the marketing side, if you like the idea by a business.

So it's basically like a franchise, but pre franchise, you know, we just tell 'em we don't really have a 

**Luke:** system. 

Right.

It's a 

**Juen Phie:** It's,

it's just an idea. Yeah. If you want, if you wanna back us, buy a franchise and we'll try to do the other side 

**Luke:** to 

it. 

**Juen Phie:** So here we are, you know, 23, 24 20. No, actually more like 25. Just had my first 

**Luke:** child

**Juen Phie:** running

a children's business.

**Luke:** That's a scary time.

**Juen Phie:** Yeah. So, 

ultimately we did fail. And ultimately that was then the next round of learning, the next round of learning was Juen I, I ended up crying to, to my mentor at the time, and I said, this is all failing. What do I do?

And, and he basically just said to me, Juen you're not cut out for business. 

Pack your bags, go [00:11:00] home, you're an accountant. Go. And so that's where, you know, took it, took his advice and went back to Adelaide 

**Luke:** basically. 

**Juen Phie:** At the time we also just had our first child in 

Malaysia. Yeah. And we had to have that decision on whether we want to raise 

**Luke:** out. children.

Yeah.

**Juen Phie:** And so together with that, we then made that journey back to Australia.

**Luke:** I feel that's a really scary time as a man. You know, I speak for myself, whereas 

like, 

let's 

say, like 

I remember feeling it a lot when my daughter was born, right? Just like the fear of getting stuck because obviously children are expensive, right? There's a fear of getting stuck in this cycle, which I, 

I, I 

feel 

that 

I saw 

a lot of parents when I was a kid get into where your expenses go up and up and up and then you are trapped 'cause you need the security of a job and they just never get off this a treadmill of renting and stuff like that.

So like, that was the time of my life when I was working like fucking crazy. 'cause I just had the fear in me, you know what 

I mean?

Yeah. 

**Juen Phie:** So, so leading up to [00:12:00] that 

**Luke:** point, 

**Juen Phie:** if you sort of look at how I went through high school, how I went through university, I actually didn't really fail. Things just came naturally 

**Luke:** to 

me. So 

**Juen Phie:** why?

I don't know. But accounting came naturally to me. So my, my old boss at the time Davidson, he, he said to me, within the first three months of being employed, he said, John, you're special. You're just picking up all of these things naturally. 

**Luke:** I've never employed 

someone 

**Juen Phie:** who was this talented in accounting.

I'm like, 

I'm an undergrad. What are you talking about? I dunno what I'm doing. He goes, no, John, you are special. 

**Luke:** And 

so, 

**Juen Phie:** you know, to get through that university years working full-time, studying 

full-time, and at the same time doing my charter accounting subjects, it just came natural. It just, yes, you did 

**Luke:** long hours, but 

you got 

through 

**Juen Phie:** it.

Mm-hmm. You just got 

**Luke:** through it. 

**Juen Phie:** It, 

you worked overtime, you worked late nights, you just got through it. You just didn't miss a beat. I didn't fail 

**Luke:** subject 

**Juen Phie:** like, you know, it 

**Luke:** just 

worked. 

**Juen Phie:** So 

Malaysia became this whole. Getting kicked in a gut and [00:13:00] my first biggest failure.

**Luke:** So there's a couple of things I want to want to dive into.

I wanna go into the, the framing of that failure, but the first thing I wanna ask about is how valuable, looking back 

do you 

see kind of the mentor mentee relationship or having a mentor? Right. So I, I'll just dive into why I 

**Juen Phie:** think 

that's 

interesting.

**Luke:** I really struggled in the early days of the business.

I've, I've spoken to you about this before, but I would consider myself one of those businesses who is a skilled technician who went into business because they go, oh, I'm a skilled technician. I should be, 

**Juen Phie:** you know, 

I 

should be able 

**Luke:** to 

run 

a 

business. 

But then not having those, any of the business skills required, and it just led to burnout.

And, and stress. And then like, my biggest my biggest win or my biggest catalyst of success, I guess you could say is joining eo. And it's because you've just got peers as mentors, right? 

We spoke 

about 

this before, 

you know, a lot of my friends now are in business and we catch up and we talk about, oh, what are you doing?

You know, or, you know, I've got friends who have businesses that I call and go and [00:14:00] unload. Like, oh, this fucking employee did this. So like, and that has just catapulted me both into, I guess the next level of business, you know, growth, but also operating from a point of, I guess comfort. 

Not 

a point 

of, 

you know, nervous breakdown every three weeks.

So I just wanted to, to, you know, so I didn't, I never had that mentor relationship and I, I kind of wanted to know how valuable you, you saw that part of your life as to your success now.

**Juen Phie:** Yep. I 

would say. That it was a huge factor. this whole search for someone 

to 

be a mentor has been my whole entire journey.

Even when working with my old boss David, I looked up to him like it was hard to leave him because that mentor relationship was there. And then going 

on to 

Malaysia, my, you know, in, in, in 

the first, 

you know, role of selling 

property 

that, that was, was a big mentor of mine. That was my, that wife's cousin [00:15:00] uncle Mike.

And so he, he mentored 

in 

that first phase 

of selling 

and then Thomas Hong in the second phase of selling. Like, having that person beside you is just invaluable. And it was 

something 

that. 

I had always craved you know, in, in my childhood and everything, always wanting that person to actually teach me.

Like I, I, I grew up in a single parent household. My mom 

raised us 

by herself and there's always this missing piece. And so this, having this mentor 

was, the missing pieces at different points in time. So, so yes. 

You 

know, 

having come back from Malaysia always had a missing hole. There was always a missing piece along the way.

And so this is where coming to EO then fills that missing piece of, 

of 

having 

mentors.

**Luke:** Yeah. It's awesome. I mean, the other one yeah. I wanted to touch on is I guess the framing of failure, right? So, I mean, it's interesting you had that say, mentor tell you, you know, you are not cut out for business.

Be because it sounds like you framed the failure as you know, this is over. Rah rah. [00:16:00] I guess I just wanted to touch on like, how did you frame. The failure of that initial business at the time and versus how do you frame it now? Is there a difference? You know, how do you look 

**Juen Phie:** back 

and, 

and 

**Luke:** that?

**Juen Phie:** So one of, one of the core values that we have in our business today is taking the punches and keep bouncing back.

**Luke:** Fuck yeah. So, 

it doesn't matter how brutal the punch is and how hard the punch 

is, 

**Juen Phie:** you know, you've gotta, 

**Luke:** you've 

gotta 

step 

back 

up. 

You know, it's how many times you get knocked down. It's how many 

times you 

step up 

**Juen Phie:** and, and some of the feedback has to be raw.

It has

to be real. If it's not real enough,

it's not

really a teachable moment, it's not a teachable lesson.

I, I carry that until today in all the other businesses that I, so every failure, so that's, this is only, call it two failures in, right? There's been so many other failures along the 

way 

that. 

When I look at business today and when I advise clients today, I hold all of that 

to heart 

where I would just tell 

a client, 

I don't think this is suitable for 

you.

I,

this is not right for you. I don't think this is gonna work. 

Go do something else. You're just gonna [00:17:00] fail. Don't go through my process of failure 'cause it's heartbreak and a lot of money you're gonna waste. 

Just 

go and 

do something else. 'cause I 

can see 

it. 

And 

Thomas saw me as a talented accountant, go back to 

accounting. So when 

I left 

my boss, David, he left me with a partnership 

**Luke:** offer. 

**Juen Phie:** So I always had a partnership offer 

**Luke:** in hand. 

**Juen Phie:** And 

**Luke:** so 

**Juen Phie:** I just went back to him and I said, 

**Luke:** Dave 

**Juen Phie:** this still real? Can I come 

**Luke:** back to 

you? 

**Juen Phie:** He said, yeah, I'd love for you to come 

**Luke:** back 

to 

me. 

**Juen Phie:** And so I went back to him and I stayed with him for, for two years before venturing out 

**Luke:** on my 

own.

**Juen Phie:** Awesome.

Yeah. 

**Luke:** So, 

So what next? 

I know you 

have a I know, you know, from talking to you previously, you've got a handful of interesting 

**Juen Phie:** businesses 

you've 

**Luke:** come 

**Juen Phie:** Yeah, 

**Luke:** Correct.

So, 

**Juen Phie:** so when I started my own accounting firm in 2009, it's with this background of sales, marketing, business development, and bringing together accounting, which comes very naturally to me.

So, so those two conversations that you're having with clients is actually quite powerful because that's a growth orientated [00:18:00] conversations that you're having with clients on how do you grow, how do you grow, how do you do things, how do you change your positioning, how do you change? So there's a lot of that involved.

So, so one of, one of my clients I won't name names, but he 

**Luke:** ended 

up. 

**Juen Phie:** Having 

an investment in a burger shop in 

Adelaide. 

And at the time, his, his business partner just 

packed up shop, 

they had an issue. He just packed up shop and said, look, 

I'm 

going 

wash 

my hands. I'm going. And so in the process of just washing the hands and 

**Luke:** walking 

off, 

**Juen Phie:** he reached out to me and said, John, I'm, I'm in Melbourne.

I can't, I can't run 

**Luke:** this business. 

**Juen Phie:** I can't control it. I can't even open 

**Luke:** up 

shop. 

**Juen Phie:** I don't know what to do. Do you mind stepping in as my accountant and just holding the fort for a little bit? And 

**Luke:** so 

that's 

what 

I 

did. 

So it's a ballsy 

**Juen Phie:** move.

Yeah. So, you know, I 

**Luke:** just, 

**Juen Phie:** helped out 

and just. 

Helped out and just helped out.

And I, I thought it was fun. I thought it was, oh, how cool is this? I get to flex some, you know, some of the stuff that I used to have in Malaysia and I get to play around again 

**Luke:** in business, 

**Juen Phie:** you know, I thought, oh geez, this 

is 

really 

cool. 

**Luke:** And 

so, 

**Juen Phie:** so this client 

**Luke:** then 

**Juen Phie:** end up raising a bit of money [00:19:00] to 

**Luke:** expand 

the 

burger 

shop 

because

so it 

was 

going well.

**Juen Phie:** So at that stage 

when I, I, I don't know if you spend much time on the parade, but at the time we had 

**Luke:** Nord 

Burger 

**Juen Phie:** and 

that was it. We only had Nord Burger and we were going through this crazy massive boom 

**Luke:** in 

burgers 

**Juen Phie:** right 

**Luke:** now, 

you 

have 

**Juen Phie:** Betty 

Burger, 

you have, you know, grilled Burger, you have a lot of these burger shops coming up everywhere.

So we were in Adelaide, call it the second. Burger brand 

**Luke:** that 

popped 

**Juen Phie:** up 

and we wanted to capitalize on it, raised a million dollars. And to set up two new swanky, brand new 

**Luke:** bright, 

beautiful 

shops.

They're still around, 

aren't 

they?

**Juen Phie:** Something the brands are around, but, but the burger brand that we set up isn't around. Okay. 

We rode the wave on the eastern suburbs. Well, because Grill didn't affect us. Nord Burger didn't 

**Luke:** affect us. 

**Juen Phie:** Fancy Burger didn't affect us. So the local competition 

didn't affect us, but it was all the suburban com competition to affect us [00:20:00] because customers would come across Adelaide to come 

**Luke:** to 

us.

Gotcha. 

**Juen Phie:** But 

when they could start going to Burger joints in their local 

**Luke:** neighborhoods, 

now 

that 

started 

to 

affect 

us. Yeah.

That 

makes 

**Juen Phie:** sense.

And 

so, 

so this is where we had two shops, one in McGill, the other one in Torville, two sides of 

town. 

And that, that didn't work. the sales 

**Luke:** just, 

**Juen Phie:** just, just dropped virtually 

overnight.

Wow. And

we, we couldn't sustain that. ~~And can I ask ~~

~~about the ~~

**Luke:** ~~process?~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~is something you're happy to talk or not?~~

~~Yeah, we ~~

~~might ~~

~~cut that ~~

~~out, ~~

~~but, ~~

~~you know, happy happy to, yeah. So, ~~

~~so that was done through my client who's, who's in private ~~

~~equity. Mm-hmm.~~

~~In, in Malaysia.~~

~~We, we went and visited one of his ~~

**Luke:** ~~venture ~~

~~offices. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~If you remember, we went to ~~

**Luke:** ~~a, a ~~

~~VC ~~

~~fund.~~

~~Oh, that's ~~

~~right. Okay. That was ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~was, ~~

~~so he, so he had all the connections and he raised the money out of Malaysia from a public listed ~~

**Luke:** ~~restaurant.~~

~~Wow. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~Wow. It's amazing.~~

~~They're, they're a restaurant group that is public listed in ~~

**Luke:** ~~Malaysia.~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~And so one of the subcommittees one of the sub sub committees ~~

**Luke:** ~~just ~~

~~put ~~

~~a ~~

~~million bucks ~~

~~with us ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~overnight to give us two stores. ~~

~~So ~~

**Luke:** ~~he had a ~~

~~very ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~relationship~~

~~with the, ~~

~~Owner. ~~

**Luke:** ~~Yeah.~~

~~and, ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~and ~~

**Luke:** ~~so ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~ultimately that period when ~~

**Luke:** ~~I~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~started to~~

~~fail in a, that burger shop. Was basically where it then ~~

**Luke:** ~~perpetuates ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~into the next big failure. This is, ~~

**Luke:** ~~this ~~

~~is ~~

~~where ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~doing ~~

**Luke:** ~~too ~~

~~much. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~You know, having an accounting ~~

**Luke:** ~~firm, ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~having a ~~

~~retail shop business ~~

**Luke:** ~~that ~~

~~was ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~challenging to manage ~~

~~and ~~

~~failing. And then at the same time having, having all these ~~

~~sinus problems. ~~

~~So I ended up having two sinus surgeries to remove the sinuses and going through a period where everything was spinning ~~

**Luke:** ~~outta control.~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~I, I felt like I didn't want the business to suffer. I felt like I didn't want ~~

~~the, the burger shop business to sufferer. I felt like I didn't want to let the investors down. I felt like I didn't want to let the kids and the ~~

~~wife ~~

~~down. I just didn't wanna let anyone down. And this ~~

~~is ultimately ~~

**Luke:** ~~where ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~When, when you end up in a situation where you ~~

~~actually ~~

~~want to ~~

~~control outcomes and you can't control ~~

**Luke:** ~~outcomes,~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~that's~~

~~where ~~

~~I ~~

**Luke:** ~~really ~~

~~suffered ~~

~~because~~

~~that's, that's, the equation for stress. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~Yeah.~~

~~that's ~~

~~where ~~

~~here you are someone ~~

~~who ~~

~~could always get out of hard situations by controlling things, controlling studies, controlling clients out, sit, you ~~

~~know, ~~

~~I couldn't control ~~

**Luke:** ~~anything.~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~I could not control anything. ~~

~~Sick ~~

~~marriage was breaking down and at the same time ~~

**Luke:** ~~burger shops ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~was ~~

~~failing ~~

~~and ~~

~~this ~~

~~is where, yeah, ~~

~~this, this, this period of time really hit ~~

~~me hard.~~

~~Mm-hmm. ~~

~~So,~~

~~On the burger shop front ~~

~~I remembered crying again to my ~~

**Luke:** ~~investor. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~He saw the pain I was going through that I was trying to do my best and I was trying ~~

**Luke:** ~~get out ~~

~~of it.~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~And he said, John, ~~

~~I'm the investor, right? He ~~

**Luke:** ~~says, yes, great. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~I'm gonna make the decision. I'm gonna take this away ~~

**Luke:** ~~you. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~you. ~~

**Luke:** ~~Sell ~~

~~it. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~Sell it. ~~

**Luke:** ~~We're ~~

~~done. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~I'm not putting any more ~~

~~money ~~

**Luke:** ~~into ~~

~~this. Sell ~~

~~it. ~~

~~We're ~~

~~done.~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~So ~~

**Luke:** ~~was losing money.~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~Yeah, well it was, it was going down and going down really, really, fast. Yeah. Couldn't ~~

~~stop it. Could not stop ~~

**Luke:** ~~all. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~all. And he said, ~~

**Luke:** ~~John, ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~open market fire, ~~

**Luke:** ~~sale.~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~If ~~

~~you can get away with paying off supplies and a little bit of ~~

~~a ~~

~~TO, ~~

~~we are ~~

~~good. ~~

~~And that's ~~

**Luke:** ~~what we ~~

~~did. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~So from that point ~~

**Luke:** ~~more onwards. ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~Yeah, that weight got lifted ~~

~~off ~~

~~my shoulder ~~

~~because the burden of being a director when someone ~~

~~else ~~

~~was ~~

~~put ~~

**Luke:** ~~in ~~

~~the money ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~Yeah.~~

~~Is a immense burden.~~

**Luke:** ~~Yeah. Immense ~~

~~burden. Well, that, and that's why I said, and su as you said, I was like, just got the ~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~pressure ~~

~~involved. ~~

**Luke:** ~~I don't think I could,~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~The~~ the next thing as well was during that whole period of spinning outta control, one of the best things that's happened 

is that I was also being the bookkeeper of 

**Luke:** the S shop.

**Juen Phie:** I didn't want my team in Australia to be the bookkeeper of the burger shop because I'm like, you know what? I want you to be revenue producing. Mm-hmm. I didn't want you to be cost to

**Luke:** me. Yeah, correct. Yeah, So I

**Juen Phie:** started doing the bookkeeping, but at the same time I'm 

**Luke:** know what? 

**Juen Phie:** I don't have time to do the 

**Luke:** bookkeeping. 

**Juen Phie:** Why don't I engage a 

outsourcing company to hire me, someone in Philippines to do the 

**Luke:** the bookkeeping? 

**Juen Phie:** You know, so hired Rachel. 

**Luke:** a first. Staff 

in the 

Philippines.

And that was, so that was through 

an [00:21:00] agency? 

Through

an agency.

An agency or a recruiter agency. So

you were paying the agency, the agency 

**Juen Phie:** was 

paying 

staff, correct? 

**Luke:** Yep. Correct. 

**Juen Phie:** So I paid an agency to recruit 

me someone 

to see if they can do bookkeeping. And they did bookkeeping 

**Luke:** immensely. 

**Juen Phie:** She did bookkeeping immensely and straight away my business mind started spinning and going, shit, let me see if I can teach you a Australian 

**Luke:** tax.

Okay,

**Juen Phie:** Great. So then I started 

diversifying her time 

**Luke:** between 

**Juen Phie:** bookkeeping for burger shop 

**Luke:** and 

accounting.

Okay. and how did you teach her Australian tax?

How, I Just

one-on-one. Yep. I've, I've always Do you? Yeah. Yeah. You haven't built a system or anything at this stage? at this stage? No. And, and I've always taught. Everyone one-on-one. And I, I typically always had hired graduates, even back in the old firm, always just hired graduates.

**Juen Phie:** So, that whole 

**Luke:** teaching one-on-one 

was just 

natural 

to 

me.

Yeah. We can get into this, but you have show, it showed me you do have a training platform 

nowadays.

Okay, cool.

**Juen Phie:** Yeah. Nowadays at the time didn't have 

the 

foresight 

**Luke:** of 

that. 

Yep. 

**Juen Phie:** But then very earlier on, then started putting in [00:22:00] place the videos for them to teach other 

people.

Cool.

So, so this 

**Luke:** is where 

**Juen Phie:** I built myself up. ~~So you gotta understand, this is all before Burger F. Burger Foundry ~~

**Luke:** ~~failed.~~

~~This is before. Okay.~~

**Juen Phie:** ~~So before we eventually shut ~~

**Luke:** ~~it down, ~~

**Juen Phie:** I started hiring in the 

**Luke:** Philippines 

**Juen Phie:** and then I got to a team of 

**Luke:** three.

And this is is where of three, they were, they were working for your accounting firm, 

major mainly?

Yes. Yeah. 



**Luke:** And they were 

all through 

an agency?

No. Okay. 

**Juen Phie:** So I negotiated with the 

**Luke:** agency. 

**Juen Phie:** I'm gonna find the second person and we'll put the second person through the 

agency. 

**Luke:** But 

they're 

mine 

**Juen Phie:** because I found them. But I just want, I just want you to handle 

**Luke:** the payroll. 

**Juen Phie:** For the first one, I had a 

**Luke:** buy back clause 

**Juen Phie:** and I told the agency I'm gonna buy it back, buy her back, 

**Luke:** and 

go 

direct. 

**Juen Phie:** Because I can see that I could recruit and go direct 

**Luke:** by 

myself

**Juen Phie:** through

the first hire. 

But the second hire, I just want to 

**Luke:** keep 

it simple. 

**Juen Phie:** And from the third hire onwards, I 

went direct. 

And they were 

**Luke:** cool 

with 

that. 

So.

Well, they can't 

**Juen Phie:** stop 

you. 

Yeah. 

they can't stop me. 

But, but I was open with them 

about 

that.

Yeah. 

And they, they, they gave their blessings on that. So it's all, 

transparent. 

So 

when I got to 

three. Staff overseas in Philippines. I [00:23:00] had about six 

here 

in Adelaide. 

And, and that's where with everything spinning outta 

control, in the accelerator program, in the people's day, we do 

this 

mission 

to 

Mars exercise.

**Luke:** Yep. Just for anyone listening drew and I are part of entrepreneurs organization and they have an accelerated program, which is to take people from $400,000 revenue to $1.6 million 

**Juen Phie:** revenue. 

Correct. That he was talking 

**Luke:** about.

So 

**Juen Phie:** at 

**Luke:** that 

stage so you were in the 

**Juen Phie:** accelerator

No, 

I 

just came

as a 

visitor. Okay, 

gotcha. I came as a visitor and I didn't join for another 

**Luke:** 12 

months. Mm-hmm. 

**Juen Phie:** Mm-hmm.

But when I came as 

**Luke:** a 

visitor, 

**Juen Phie:** I came and we did the mission to Mars exercise and the mission to Mars exercise asks two 

**Luke:** key questions. 

**Juen Phie:** If you were to 

go to Mars, 

**Luke:** unknown 

planet 

**Juen Phie:** with 

unknown challenges, who would you take to 

Mars 

**Luke:** why? 

**Juen Phie:** Who would you take? The Mars became 

**Luke:** your 

A 

players? 

**Juen Phie:** Why became your 

**Luke:** company 

values?

Oh wow. That's an interesting word.

**Juen Phie:** Yeah.

So who would I take the Mars? I only wrote down my three Filipino 

**Luke:** names. 

**Juen Phie:** Why Beca is became my company values and has been 

**Luke:** until today. 

**Juen Phie:** [00:24:00] And so 

the values 

are a team of underdogs 

**Luke:** that keeps 

**Juen Phie:** winning.

I don't want losers in my team. I want winners in my team and I want winners. I'm not talking about people who are bright and smart, I'm talking 

about underdogs. 

People who people say, shit, I don't 

**Luke:** think 

you 

can 

do 

it, 

**Juen Phie:** but 

by 

and by 

they then 

**Luke:** amazingly 

triumph, 

you 

know? 

Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

**Juen Phie:** So 

a team of 

**Luke:** motivated, tenacious.

Yep.

Yep. 

**Juen Phie:** A team 

of underdogs that keeps 

**Luke:** on winning 

**Juen Phie:** battlers that takes the punches and 

**Luke:** never 

gives 

up. 

**Juen Phie:** And 

**Luke:** then 

**Juen Phie:** there was a third one, 

**Luke:** but 

that 

was 

the 

main 

two. 

Mm-hmm.

What 

was the 

second 

one? 

Sorry,

**Juen Phie:** Battlers. 

That takes the punches Yeah. And keeps pouncing. Yeah, I see a 

**Luke:** theme.

**Juen Phie:** So, 

**Luke:** you 

know, 

**Juen Phie:** this was pretty much the embodiment of the Filipino 

**Luke:** culture. 

**Juen Phie:** There's a third one, the, the, the, the 

third 

one 

will 

come. 

And so this 

**Luke:** became 

**Juen Phie:** the catalyst for 

**Luke:** me 

**Juen Phie:** to let go of everyone in Australia and continue to 

**Luke:** hire 

them 

in the Philippines.

**Juen Phie:** So 

there's a real 

**Luke:** of clarity. 

Well, 

**Juen Phie:** in that time when everything was going wrong, everything was spinning outta 

**Luke:** control. 

**Juen Phie:** The team in Philippines were the [00:25:00] ones that actually 

had 

my 

back, 

were the ones that helped me get through all 

my, 

you 

know, 

health 

issues. 

they were the team 

that helped,

helped me keep my marriage together.

They

were the team that. You know, made 

sure 

that I 

had 

money 

in the 

bank. They

They were there when 

things 

mattered.

They were there when 

things 

mattered 

because, you know, there's a large part of the culture in Australia, which is just do the bare bones 

minimum. 

And 

that's 

how 

it 

felt. 

You know, my manager at the time, you know, I won't beg her, I won't 

beg 

her 

at 

all. 

if she ever listens to this podcast, she'll want one of the best things that has ever happened 

to me.

I look back at the time and we got along so well, I. 

but the thing is, I had a 

**Luke:** vision 

for 

her. 

**Juen Phie:** The vision was, and I kept on telling her this vision, that the vision was, I'm 

gonna 

have

a

team offshore. I'm gonna teach and train them 

and they're gonna 

**Luke:** better do 

**Juen Phie:** 80% of what 

you can do 

**Luke:** in Australia 

**Juen Phie:** so that you can be a partner with me in my 

accounting 

firm.

You can do advisory, you can help win clients. 'cause she was winning clients. She was, she was getting bonuses for winning clients. 

She was doing 

**Luke:** really, 

really 

[00:26:00] good. 

**Juen Phie:** And 

**Luke:** once 

I 

had 

**Juen Phie:** trained up the team 

**Luke:** well 

enough 

**Juen Phie:** that they could do enough of 

**Luke:** her 

role, 

**Juen Phie:** I turned around to her one day and I said to her, 

**Luke:** okay, 

**Juen Phie:** you can 

actually, the, you know, the team can do 70% 

**Luke:** of 

what 

you can 

do.

**Juen Phie:** What would you like to do now? 

And this is, you know, we, we went for, when we went for a run 

**Luke:** earlier on,

I, 

**Juen Phie:** I, I, I shared with you why I love being part of the key executive program because I can learn and understand what I've done wrong over time to my key 

**Luke:** executives. 

**Juen Phie:** And, you know, the common trait 

is 

I 

didn't 

somehow 

convey the vision mission 

well enough.

I'll take that as my failure 

because 

she thought I was pushing her out 

**Luke:** of 

a 

job.

I,

I thought 

**Juen Phie:** I was trying to make her a 

**Luke:** business 

partner. 

**Juen Phie:** You 

**Luke:** can 

see 

**Juen Phie:** right? 

Yeah. Yeah.

And maybe my messaging and maybe my tone wasn't clear 

**Luke:** enough. 

**Juen Phie:** And I've gotta look back and just take that on myself 

and 

say 

that's 

**Luke:** that's 

**Juen Phie:** fault.

Yeah. You know, so, 

so that's interesting. She, 

she 

ended 

up, 

we, we, we split, 

**Luke:** she still 

on 

good terms, 

**Juen Phie:** [00:27:00] but I know that it scarred us both mentally because 

**Luke:** we 

were so 

close. Okay. And that was a manager in Australia, manager in Australia. So, so how many staff did you have at the time? You, you said six in Australia.

**Juen Phie:** Three in 

**Luke:** Philippines.

Yep. 

So about, roughly about 

nine.

And you made the decision 

to terminate the entire workforce in

**Juen Phie:** Well, when they resigned, I 

**Luke:** just 

didn't 

hire 

them 

back

Oh. So they all just, they were 

**Juen Phie:** So they they were resigned. They

just 

**Luke:** gradually 

resigned. Because,

and, and then you st 

**Juen Phie:** started,

When you've got people in the Philippines 

who can 

do 60, 70, 80% of what someone in Australia can do, your expectation of any Australian employee 

**Luke:** increases. 

Okay.

**Juen Phie:** Because,

hey, I can, I can get 70% done on offshore. 

If I'm gonna pay you three 

**Luke:** times 

as much,

You gotta, that better be value. You

**Juen Phie:** you gotta be valued, you gotta be valuable.

If not, there's no reason for me to have you.

Yeah.

Okay. So, so that 

**Luke:** became 

**Juen Phie:** unfortunately my mindset at 

**Luke:** the time. 

**Juen Phie:** And I then, yeah, kept on hiring. So I got to about 20 staff 

**Luke:** in, 

in 

the 

Philippines.

Got that escalated quick [00:28:00] and I had zero in Australia. I just let them, you know, let them go. I didn't, if they wanted to resign, I didn't try to.

**Juen Phie:** So basically out of Philippines, we do compliance work, which is tax returns, the 

bookkeeping work, 

and our admin. So all our admin gets done in the Philippines. To, to cross the final hurdle of bringing admin back to 

**Luke:** Philippines. 

**Juen Phie:** I brought two of my good senior employees, Paul and Dolly, 

**Luke:** to 

Adelaide. 

And 

**Juen Phie:** they spent two 

**Luke:** weeks 

with 

**Juen Phie:** me 

just 

learning the admin process, learning everything to bring it back to 

**Luke:** Philippines and to implement a lot 

of 

**Juen Phie:** systems. 

Back then, 

I wasn't smart enough in either process 

mapping 

or process documentation through checklists. I 

**Luke:** wasn't smart 

enough. 

**Juen Phie:** I was still the boss 

**Luke:** where 

**Juen Phie:** I 

just want 

**Luke:** you 

to 

do 

it.

**Juen Phie:** Yeah.

Here, I'll teach you with my hands. I'll show you with my hands. I just want you to it. 

I wasn't quite smart 

**Luke:** enough 

to see the 

steps 

involved.

Well, and look, I think that's a natural, you know, you spoke before about kind of being a natural with the [00:29:00] counting and stuff like that.

**Juen Phie:** I actually think a, 

**Luke:** that's a common trait of people that are just naturally good at things. You just expect everybody else to kind of easily pick it up, right? Mm-hmm. And then when they don't, you get frustrated and it turns into a thing. So I think the kind of, one of the biggest steps you can make is coming to that realization and realizing 

**Juen Phie:** that 

no, 

no, these 

are 

**Luke:** to be 

documented.

**Juen Phie:** Correct. Correct. So, natural.

Natural

at, I'm, I'm great 

at teaching, 

I'm a 

**Luke:** great 

coach, 

**Juen Phie:** great at 

**Luke:** doing, 

**Juen Phie:** but 

there was a step that I wasn't good at, which is process documentation. 

**Luke:** I'm, 

I'm 

much 

**Juen Phie:** nowadays. 

**Luke:** much 

better 

nowadays. 

So first 

thing I 

do.

it's hard 'cause it's such 

**Juen Phie:** a painful 

process,

**Luke:** but 

**Juen Phie:** if you do it often enough, you learn 

**Luke:** how 

to 

shortcut it.

Mm-hmm. Like,

it doesn't 

have 

to 

be perfect. Yeah. 

**Juen Phie:** You just gotta put it down and then you 

**Luke:** can 

refine it 

over 

time.

Yeah. Look, that's the hardest thing. It's going from zero to something and then you can constantly refine. Yeah.

So, 

**Juen Phie:** so 

right now we've, we've picked up a large bookkeeping job. Very big bookkeeping fees.

He's got about 30 entities. Like it's big 

step one. Day one. What I do is process 

**Luke:** map, 

it, 

[00:30:00] dot, 

dot, 

dot. 

**Juen Phie:** Someone 

else can build upon 

it later, 

but without the skeletons of a process map, no one else can take over. You 

can't delegate. 

If you can't delegate, you can't improve. If you can't improve, you are gonna always 

**Luke:** be 

doing the 

work. 

**Juen Phie:** So, so that process mapping is just something I do day one, day dot, and I make sure everyone in the whole team 

**Luke:** knows 

how 

to 

do it. 

**Juen Phie:** Even from a graduate, even from someone who's been with me for only two weeks, they're gonna start to learn how to write in 

their notebook, 

step by step, 

**Luke:** what 

they're 

doing.

**Juen Phie:** ' cause that step by step, 

**Luke:** what 

they're 

doing 

is 

actually 

a 

checklist.

**Juen Phie:** Yeah.

it's actually the cornerstone of a present. So we make sure within two weeks 

**Luke:** they've got, they're building upon their skills.

Yeah. Oh, I know. I'm about to ask you if you have, if you've read Systemology, but you know somebody who implements systemology, right?

Yeah. A great book. And it just kind of goes through, you know, find your best staff member and just get 'em to document exactly what they do. You can build on that. So, you know, don't build a system how you think it would go. Build 

it 

how your best 

staff already does it. Right. Start 

**Juen Phie:** with 

that, 



**Juen Phie:** so [00:31:00] I actually take it to a different level, right?

Because 

what you tend to have when you have your best staff, and if they're resistant to 

change, 

they're gonna be resistant on process 

mapping 

because they're worried 

about 

the job. 

You see,

Okay.

So what you do is that best staff has to 

train 

someone, 

and 

then 

that person that you're training is the one 

that 

has 

to 

bullet point, 

dot 

point and create a 

**Luke:** process 

now. Okay.

**Juen Phie:** Okay? Because the first one's not gonna do it because they're going, oh, always say, 

**Luke:** I'm too 

busy, 

I'm 

too 

busy, I'm 

too 

busy.

So I mean, the way I've got around that is, going, you know how you go away for a week and then you come back and there's a pile of things for you to do? Yeah. I'm trying to eliminate that.

Okay. So we need to start processing that. 

That's 

**Juen Phie:** my 

go-to. Yep. so what we also do is day day one, 

do video 

recording.

Okay.

Here's a video recording of the senior training, 

**Luke:** a 

junior, 

**Juen Phie:** and 

**Luke:** within 

**Juen Phie:** whatever period 

of time that 

**Luke:** junior 

he served. So documented. So that video 

**Juen Phie:** recording. 

Right. So I've 

**Luke:** found,

**Juen Phie:** [00:32:00] you

**Luke:** know, when I, so we do a lot of quality control procedures on products and I've found 

quite quickly if you ask the staff to video this, it get like video, you know, the process, it quite quickly gets way bigger than it needs to be.

And they turn it into a huge thing and everything needs to be perfect. So kind of how do you combat that? Because Yeah, I, I, I've, I've gone, oh, do this and they end up doing, you know, it takes 'em like, you know, hours and hours 'cause 

**Juen Phie:** they 

wanna 

do the 

editing 

and stuff 

like 

that. 

Yep.

yep. So, 

so we never do videos that are only video training. We do live 

videos. 

So for 

example, 

you 

know, 

it'll just be, right now we 

can just turn on a computer right now, open up Loom and I'll show you 

a process. Yeah.

And that's 

it. 

It's a live 

process 

that someone needs to document, 

not. 

Let me go off, let me study this process and come back with the 

perfect 

solution.

'cause 

there is 

nothing perfect

world. It's 

**Luke:** It's 

a balance, right? Because if, if that's not the way you do it, there's so much of a resistance. People think there's so much to set up and it [00:33:00] just, it, it, it gets too difficult to the point that nobody does it. Right. See, there's a balance in making sure it's educational.

But also, yeah, if you go too far, you'll do one video and you'll be burnt out and you'll never do it 

**Juen Phie:** again.

And what we say is, on a live recording, you might have pre-prepared chapters or, or modules, 

but every video should be maxed 

15, 

**Luke:** 20 

minutes. 

**Juen Phie:** Yep. 

So you're sort of doing a video according 

to 

chapters that you can put together on a, on a website to say module one, module two, 

module 

three.

Yeah. Because anything more than 15, 20 minutes, one takes you long and two, 

**Luke:** they're 

not 

gonna 

retain it.

Yeah. Gotcha. So, so I mean, inspired by kind of what you've showed me in the past, I'm starting an MSC university or I guess what you say.

Yeah, and, and the way I've started it so far, I'm just in the beginning stages. But I'm building PowerPoint and then I'm doing loom videos over PowerPoints where I basically just sp you know, the PowerPoint will be real basic and I'll just speak on topics. Yeah. And then we're kind of building a framework around that.

And I wanna, I wanna get a system put in where like, let's say a new staff, you've gotta do one [00:34:00] course a week and I can see whether they've completed that course, right? And it's like, you know, you've got a, you've got a KPI within the first three months, you've gotta finish this, this, this and this. And then I can see whether they've completed that.

And then they don't have the excuse that I haven't told them how to 

do something. 

I haven't 

trained them properly. 'cause previously it was just me one-on-one time and time and time again. And the amount of time 

**Juen Phie:** that 

you 

put into every 

**Luke:** staff member 

is a lot. And then when you look, then, then when you lose them, you cry yourself to sleep.

'cause it's cost you so much money to train. So the idea is, you know, basically taking, 

**Juen Phie:** I guess 

**Luke:** cost out 

of that process. 

So it's, you know, easy to find your people and if somebody's not working, it's easier to kind of replace 

**Juen Phie:** them, 

if 

that makes 

sense. Correct. Correct. 

A

hundred percent. 

**Luke:** A 

hundred percent.

**Juen Phie:** So,

so yeah, just, just going back 

onto the business 

**Luke:** journey, 

you know, 

**Juen Phie:** when 

at 

the team and what the team did for me during those really, 

really 

horrible period 

**Luke:** of 

my life 

**Juen Phie:** that, that really gives me that big sense 

**Luke:** of, 

**Juen Phie:** you know, what I [00:35:00] really want to give back 

to them.

So I explain it to people 

and I say 

**Luke:** to people, 

**Juen Phie:** it's like, if you were to have donated your kidney 

to me, 

let's say both my kidneys were stuffed and you donated your 

**Luke:** kidney. 

To 

me, 

**Juen Phie:** how on earth would I try to 

say 

thank 

you 

**Luke:** to 

you, 

**Juen Phie:** for 

you 

willingly giving me your 

kidney? 

So 

I could try to 

**Luke:** give you 

money. 

**Juen Phie:** I could say, try to say 

**Luke:** thank 

you 

**Juen Phie:** or I could 

**Luke:** try 

**Juen Phie:** to 

repay you 

for 

**Luke:** the rest 

of 

my life, 

if 

you 

know 

what I 

mean. 

**Juen Phie:** Mm-hmm. 

If I just said, oh hey, thanks for giving me your kidney, how much is it worth? Can I give you a 

**Luke:** a hundred 

grand for 

it? You're 

**Juen Phie:** You're gonna go, do you? And I never gave you 

my 

**Luke:** kidney 

to 

you 

for 

money.

so it sounds, I mean, the way you're speaking about, it's quite passionate. It sounds like these people were really fundamental in, in kind of your, I don't wanna say survival, but you know, you're 

**Juen Phie:** Saturday through 

this 

period.

Oh, 

**Luke:** when 

you are, 

**Juen Phie:** are, they were there to make sure that 

**Luke:** I 

earned 

money, 

**Juen Phie:** they were there, that eventually I got better 

**Luke:** in 

my 

health

**Juen Phie:** and

I didn't get divorced 

and you know, mentally I 

**Luke:** I was 

a 

wreck.

**Juen Phie:** So I went to psychology [00:36:00] sessions and, you know, got myself more, you know, resilient. You know, in everything. So there's a big 

give back. There's a big give back 

in everything I'm doing, 

even 

**Luke:** until 

today, 

**Juen Phie:** everything's just a massive 

**Luke:** give 

back. 

**Juen Phie:** It hurts me. It pains 

me 

that the people that were 

with 

me 

during that time, some of them are no longer 

**Luke:** with 

me 

**Juen Phie:** because they're the ones that I want to 

**Luke:** better 

give 

back.

**Juen Phie:** Look, it doesn't change my vision. It doesn't change the fact that the people who joined me today will still get the opportunity to benefit from this vision. 

They, they're the lucky ones that didn't have to go through the hard yards of how this 

**Luke:** whole, 

**Juen Phie:** they didn't have to go through the hard yards 

of me 

learning 

about 

business 

**Luke:** and 

life didn't

live 

**Juen Phie:** through 

the 

chaos.

They didn't have to live through the chaos. 

**Luke:** But, 

**Juen Phie:** you know, they'll be there and they'll will 

be 

rewarded. They, 

**Luke:** so, 

**Juen Phie:** so what does this give back look like? So I say my life was transformed 

**Luke:** because 

of 

them. 

**Juen Phie:** So it 

is only right that I transformed 

**Luke:** their 

life. 

**Juen Phie:** Transforming someone in Philippines, transforming the [00:37:00] life of someone 

**Luke:** in 

Philippines 

**Juen Phie:** has been something that I've been thinking a lot about 

**Luke:** a lot.

**Juen Phie:** Because you can't just give them money. 

You 

can't 

**Luke:** give 

them 

money. Why?



**Luke:** They'll just 

spend 

it. 

**Juen Phie:** Just like in 

**Luke:** Australia, 

**Juen Phie:** if I just gave you an extra a hundred grand today, you'd probably buy a new car. You probably take a holiday. 

**Luke:** You 

probably 

take, 

**Juen Phie:** it's 

**Luke:** only 

gone, so. So what do you mean when you say you 

**Juen Phie:** wanna 

change their 

life?

**Luke:** What does that 

mean to you?

**Juen Phie:** The only way that I can say that I can transform someone's life is to give them too 

much 

**Luke:** money.

Yeah.

That 

**Juen Phie:** it's transformative 

**Luke:** enough.

Okay.

**Juen Phie:** Because 

at 

some point. 

**Luke:** There's 

a 

bracket 

creep. 

**Juen Phie:** Yeah. 

When you get to 

**Luke:** a certain 

**Juen Phie:** point, you've got too much money that you can't spend 

**Luke:** it, 

you 

can't 

**Juen Phie:** spend 

**Luke:** too 

much 

money 

after 

**Juen Phie:** that, 

you've got 

too 

**Luke:** much 

money 

**Juen Phie:** that you can do 

**Luke:** whatever 

you 

want 

now.

**Juen Phie:** Okay. Then you go, oh, geez, 

how 

are 

you gonna do that for someone in 

**Luke:** Philippines? 

**Juen Phie:** Doesn't that sound like it's 

**Luke:** unrealistic? 

**Juen Phie:** The only way that I have seen that this can actually 

**Luke:** happen 

**Juen Phie:** is through co-ownership of businesses outside of 

**Luke:** accounting. 

Okay. 

**Juen Phie:** So, 

so this brings to the next [00:38:00] phase 

of, 

of, of my journey, 

**Luke:** which 

is 

**Juen Phie:** so, 

so this next phase of my business journey 

**Luke:** is 

to, 

**Juen Phie:** is to basically look for businesses that I can actually 

co-own. 

And in the process of co-ownership, a portion of my ownership will go towards. Them and their future 

**Luke:** as 

a 

collective. 

**Juen Phie:** So, 

so there's a big movement overseas that's slowly coming to Australia. It's called 

employee 

**Luke:** ownership 

trusts. Mm-hmm. 

**Juen Phie:** It's where ownership in your business is held by basically a 

**Luke:** discretionary 

trust.

**Juen Phie:** It's not discretionary to your family members is discretionary to the employees. 

And so that's, what effectively the ownership is 

gonna 

be. 

So, so this is where again, 

**Luke:** you 

know, 

**Juen Phie:** I 

then went 

in Philippines through going to Philippines by networking and meeting people. I 

started looking at opportunities in Philippines to invest in, 

**Luke:** because 

**Juen Phie:** quite rightly, 

if you've got a team on, if you've got a team in Philippines and you've got no one in 

**Luke:** Australia, 

**Juen Phie:** and this team of Philippines can get the work [00:39:00] done and can advise clients and can do great things for you 

in 

**Luke:** accounting.

**Juen Phie:** you are

**Luke:** making money, 

**Juen Phie:** there's no question about it. You are 

**Luke:** making 

money. 

**Juen Phie:** So if I'm 

**Luke:** making 

money 

**Juen Phie:** and I've got this vision of transforming their future through co-ownership 

**Luke:** in 

businesses, 

**Juen Phie:** it's a natural step to bringing my money to Philippines and investing in businesses 

**Luke:** in 

Philippines. 

**Juen Phie:** so we, we toyed around with franchises.

So we bought some seven elevens 

in Philippines. 

And having them managed by my team 

**Luke:** of 

accountants, 

**Juen Phie:** because 

you're buying a system, you're buying a franchise, and my managers in 

**Luke:** accounting, 

**Juen Phie:** I can pay them so that they can also manage the, the, the seven 

**Luke:** retail shops. 

**Juen Phie:** So 

seven 11 in, in Philippines is actually a really, really hard 

business.

It's

a hard business because you actually have no control. 

You have no say, you have no control. You are in 

**Luke:** the 

backseat 

all 

the 

time.

Is you are talking about because of the franchise model, or why do you have no control?

**Juen Phie:** The franchise model is franchise to the extreme.

**Luke:** Yeah. Gotcha. So in Australia,

**Juen Phie:** you've got a little bit more say over what you do and how you do things.

Mm-hmm. 

**Luke:** Over 

there you 

[00:40:00] literally 

have 

no 

say

It's like, almost like to the level of like McDonald's or something like that. You have to do exactly 

what to 

put on 

your plate.

**Juen Phie:** I'm okay if you did exactly what they had to say, but you've always got a 

**Luke:** bit 

of discretion. 

Okay.

**Juen Phie:** So the discretion is in the world 

**Luke:** of 

marketing, 

**Juen Phie:** you want to grow your own franchise.

**Luke:** Fine. 

**Juen Phie:** In Australia, you are encouraged to grow 

**Luke:** your 

own 

franchise 

**Juen Phie:** because 

I've got clients who own franchises and they're the ones that make a lot of money. The 

ones 

**Luke:** that 

**Juen Phie:** take 

initiative to do their own marketing and not rely on 

**Luke:** the 

franchisor.

Yep.

**Juen Phie:** ' cause that's what sales and marketing is. This is what my whole journey in, in, in Philippines is all about.

You only make money if you are in sales 

**Luke:** marketing. 

**Juen Phie:** so there I am 

trying to 

**Luke:** do. 

**Juen Phie:** All of these marketing campaigns

For

**Luke:** my shops 

**Juen Phie:** to go through a six months approval 

**Luke:** process 

to 

get 

told 

no. 

**Juen Phie:** Oh

**Luke:** fuck.

**Juen Phie:** It was painful. Yeah.

So

one store was doing decent because they had a good, decent population.

Then another store we were getting hit with local factors [00:41:00] around our shop where 

the bridge 

was under construction, didn't open 

for 

six months. 

The school stopped letting out the kids 

for 

lunch breaks, 

**Luke:** you know, they, you 

**Juen Phie:** you know, right 

behind 

us. 

The, the landlord just opened up more shops that started competing 

against 

us.

A direct competition like we just got.

**Luke:** And then you, your hands are tied in how you can react to those Well, we literally, we model. React. Yeah.

**Juen Phie:** Couldn't react at all. And so 

**Luke:** this 

is 

where. 

**Juen Phie:** I let, I let that, you know, we've, we've now given them back 

**Luke:** to 

the 

franchisor. 

**Juen Phie:** but You've, 

you've 

got 

rid 

of '

em.

We got rid of them already. At, at 

a 

loss 

unfortunately. We 

just got '

em 

off 

our hands. 

Just not worth the time 

for 

us 

to keep 

on looking at and keep on managing 

that 

headache. 

Just 

not 

worth 

it. 

Yeah. So

the 

next

iteration was to look at massage business. So we looked at massage business in, 

in 

the 

Philippines.

Lo and behold, these hands can actually 

massage 

quite well, 

and, and we looked down the 

process 

of 

bringing 

Australian remedial massage to 

the 

Philippines. 

[00:42:00] Good 

as 

a 

concept, 

but 

at 

the 

same 

time 

you know, I lost some money 

on that 

because, 

you know, being able to recruit, train, massage therapists and retain them, I was able to train 

them up quite 

well that 

they could 

actually deliver.

Very, very good Australian standard 

massage 

quality 

in the Philippines. 

Managed to 

get 

good success, 

however, just couldn't 

retain them. 

It was 

a retention 

problem. 

Why? They 

**Luke:** rafter 

**Juen Phie:** but 

you 

know, 

we're, we're 

**Luke:** dealing 

with 

people 

who 

**Juen Phie:** were 

quite 

poor 

**Luke:** and, 

**Juen Phie:** you know, they don't necessarily have the 

**Luke:** mindset 

to work. 

**Juen Phie:** you know, they, they, they didn't have, have the work ethics 

to work. They're happy to be paid basic salary just 

to 

sit around and massage one or two people. Every 

now 

and 

then, 

they didn't have the mindset to 

**Luke:** handle 

**Juen Phie:** back 

to 

back 

seven, eight people up. 

**Luke:** Yeah.

**Juen Phie:** Yeah. So, 

so this is where we couldn't, we, we, we couldn't handle, 

handle 

that.

And so that's where we scout back. So this is where my vision 

of [00:43:00] what partnership looks like 

became 

**Luke:** different. 

**Juen Phie:** my 

**Luke:** vision 

of, 

**Juen Phie:** I'm only gonna partner up with people who are subject matter experts 

**Luke:** in 

their 

field. 

**Juen Phie:** I'm not 

gonna partner up 

with, 

let's say, my accounting 

**Luke:** firm 

staff 

to run 

a 

**Juen Phie:** that 

**Luke:** they're 

not 

subject 

matter 

experts 

in.

Yeah. So someone like, like what I was saying, what I consider myself as like I'm a skilled technician or a subject matter expert.

Correct. But not, don't well, didn't necessarily have the business skills Correct. To be able to make 

**Juen Phie:** the 

rubber 

hit 

the 

road. 

Correct.

So, 

so 

our business model 

**Luke:** is 

to now.

**Juen Phie:** Search and find people like yourselves that we can take equity position in. And whatever equity position I take in, I can then 

**Luke:** share 

that 

with 

my 

team in 

Philippines.

Okay. And, and then there's a co value relationship because you're adding the business knowledge, they're adding, and I know finances potentially, 

**Juen Phie:** and 

they're 

adding 

the 

subject 

of experts. Correct. 

So, so this is where we do what we do best. 

**Luke:** We're 

**Juen Phie:** accountants, 

we're not retail operators, we're not massage therapists. We are [00:44:00] bloody 

good accountants. 

And 

that 

is 

a scalable team that can help scale any other business out there from 

**Luke:** the 

finance 

function 

point 

**Juen Phie:** view.

Yeah. 

So, so this is where in, in the Philippines we've gotten involved in, in a construction company. Not 

without 

its challenges, 

but 

with 

**Luke:** the 

ability 

to 

**Juen Phie:** scale. 

So we only wanna be involved in businesses that can truly scale through our involvement. If there is no scalability. We'll 

just 

**Luke:** be 

their 

accountant. 

**Juen Phie:** Mm-hmm. We won't take equity, 

**Luke:** we 

**Juen Phie:** invest. 

So in the Philippines, you know, 

**Luke:** we're 

talking about 

**Juen Phie:** a business that can go from four, you know, talking about Aussie dollars. Right. You know, taking them from a 400,000 Aussie dollar turnover to a $2 million Aussie dollar turnover within 

12 

months. 

That's 

great scale.

If 

**Luke:** we 

hit them 

**Juen Phie:** to four mil to two mil, then we can get 'em to two 

mil 

to 10 

mil. 

Mm-hmm. 

You know, that scalability 

is easy. 

**Luke:** There's, 

there's that. 

**Juen Phie:** And then just 

looking at, you know, what else we can look towards here 

in 

Australia.

**Luke:** Awesome.

So I wanna dive into, I've spoken to you a lot about outsourcing and you've been [00:45:00] very helpful for me kind of on my outsourcing journey. I say the word journey too much, my outsourcing path. So I just wanted to dive into it, 

**Juen Phie:** you know, 

a, 

**Luke:** few tips. I 

mean, 

a couple of the hardest things for me have been recruiting, right?

Finding good staff. Yep. And then also the cultural difference. So I'm wondering whether you could kind of dive into a few learnings from, from your experiences in, in 

both 

of those 

**Juen Phie:** subjects. Sure.

So, recruiting 

for staff is actually very easy. if you want, I'm, I'm more than happy to, you know, help 

you 

out 

**Luke:** on 

that. 

Mm-hmm.

**Juen Phie:** A lot of businesses are focused only on the client. One of the times I went to one of the EO learning days we had a at the end of every learning day, we've actually got a 

panel 

speaker panel speaking session, and one of the panel speakers at the time, I 

can't 

remember 

what it 

is, 

they said that 

**Luke:** you 

fluctuate 

**Juen Phie:** between looking for clients and looking for staff, looking for clients, looking for staff.

You need to, when you go for staff, have a deliberate marketing strategy 

for staff. And then when you look for clients, you need to have a deliberate marketing strategy 

**Luke:** for 

looking 

for staff. 

**Juen Phie:** So that was a bit of 

**Luke:** an 

aha moment. 

[00:46:00] That 

was 

**Juen Phie:** oh wow, 

I need a marketing strategy to 

look 

for staff. 

So right now we've 

**Luke:** got 

a 

**Juen Phie:** page, 

and the Facebook page either posts about 

**Luke:** the 

business 

**Juen Phie:** or it posts about 

**Luke:** the 

staff. 

**Juen Phie:** Two very, very 

**Luke:** completely 

separate. 

Posting strategies.

**Juen Phie:** If

it's posting about the business, it's all about business. How good we are, how good we are, good we are. If it's posting about the staff, it's all about how good our culture is, how good our, how much fun we have, how, what such an amazing place 

**Luke:** that 

we 

have.

**Juen Phie:** So all we've gotta do is put out a job ad, it, 

you 

**Luke:** know, 

and 

just 

post 

it.

Mm-hmm.



**Juen Phie:** The amount of people 

that is 

**Luke:** now 

shared 

upon is 

amazing.

Yeah. Okay. So you advertise through your 

**Juen Phie:** own 

Facebook?

Yep. We advertise through 

**Luke:** our own channel. 

Yeah. 

**Juen Phie:** So, so one of the other EO members said to me, oh, do you and I should need 

access to 

admin 

staff?

I'm

finding it hard to find admin staff. I go like, 

**Luke:** did 

you 

want 

our leads? 

Yeah. We're 

**Juen Phie:** Where like in, 

**Luke:** in, 

in 

**Juen Phie:** last. 

I don't know. Weekend we've given 

**Luke:** them 

10 

admin 

resumes.

Yep. And then 

**Juen Phie:** what 

about 

the interviewing 

**Luke:** What 

are you 

looking for?

**Juen Phie:** So, 

first round interview, it's all about whether or not they can communicate well [00:47:00] and if they've got a bubbly 

**Luke:** enough 

personality.

**Juen Phie:** Okay. Second interview is all about culture. C. Can, can we dive into that? What do you mean by communicate? Well, and what do you mean by bubbly? bubbly personality. 

Can they 

just speak 

**Luke:** good English? 

**Juen Phie:** Can they get 

**Luke:** the 

message 

across?

**Juen Phie:** Yep.

If they can't cut them out, on. 

So pre that, we've gotta screen 

the resume 

and then, then we're looking at whether or not they can communicate.

If they can 

communicate 

well 

then they'll, they'll go to a second round interview. So, princess does our first round interviews and she'll spend 15 minutes, 

**Luke:** maximum half 

an 

hour, 

**Juen Phie:** and then 

**Luke:** not involved in first round? No. 

**Juen Phie:** So 

you've, you've 

**Luke:** parameters that she's looking for. Okay. And, how many interviews would she do for a position for the 

**Juen Phie:** first 

round?

We, we want out of 10, 10, 10 interviews, hopefully we'll get three.

**Luke:** Okay, so you're doing the first round's, 10, and then you've got a second round and what are 

**Juen Phie:** are you 

looking 

for 

then?

So, second round, purely. so one, do they know their accounting, technical accounting, two 

**Luke:** cultural fit. 

**Juen Phie:** So, 

technical accounting will, 

will 

hit them 

with some, some technical 

**Luke:** accounting 

questions 

**Juen Phie:** and then cultural fit. so my wife is really, 

**Luke:** really 

[00:48:00] good 

at 

**Juen Phie:** stage. 

She's probably got a better 

**Luke:** strike 

rate 

at 

that 

compared 

to 

me.

Yeah,

she's fantastic. Yeah. 

Yeah. I, I can be very poor at that and that, and that's why I get other people to sit into my 

**Juen Phie:** interviews.

So, so 

she can read 

**Luke:** people 

that word. 

**Juen Phie:** and so by the time they come 

to me culturally, they're 

**Luke:** actually 

very 

good. 

**Juen Phie:** Okay.

Culturally, they are someone that you would go 

out 

**Luke:** on weekends 

with. 

**Juen Phie:** Simple 

as that. 

And 

because, you know, primarily we do focus on the graduate market or people with 

**Luke:** one 

or 

two 

year 

**Juen Phie:** skills, 

we find the ones with three to four 

year skills or three to five year skills, their salary expectation 

**Luke:** is 

through 

**Juen Phie:** roof.

Okay. 

So unrealistic. 

**Luke:** It's 

not 

funny. 

So 

we're just 

never 

I wonder why that is. Is that 'cause people are paying it?

**Juen Phie:** Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because, because we've got a staff shortage in Australia, 

if you can't find someone at, you know, the, the graduate salary right now for an accountant is maybe 

60, 

70 grand.

So if you can't find a graduate for 60, 70 grand, you would definitely more than be happy to pay 40 grand 

for someone who's got 

**Luke:** five 

years 

experience. 

**Juen Phie:** Okay. 40 grand for a five years experience [00:49:00] is 

**Luke:** someone 

who's 

got who's, 

It's 

a 

dumb.

dog. 

**Juen Phie:** Yeah.

Got they. They really don't 

have 

the 

skills. Okay. Because

if I'm gonna pay someone 40 grand, they gotta 

be.

How many times better than a graduate that can train up from scratch.

**Luke:** Yeah, I understand. Okay. It's

just worth it. Mm-hmm. Just not worth it. 

Especially with our 

training 

program and 

everything 

that 

we've 

got. So

you get graduates and then you basically, I guess, show them how good of a place to work at your, and, and, and I guess how much growth they can get within your company.

Yep. And then you maintain 

them long 

**Juen Phie:** term. Yep. And then

when they get past the, you know, two year 

mark, 

that's when, you know, they'll start opening up to the equity 

**Luke:** bonuses 

that 

we 

have 

on 

offer.

Oh, wow. Okay. And is this 

a structured 

**Juen Phie:** thing?

Well that's, that's what I've still gotta figure out from here onwards.

But they, they, they, they won't get any equity or, you know, access to the equity bonuses from the other businesses unless 

**Luke:** they 

stay for 

**Juen Phie:** years. 

So the two years is actually a magical time. Historically, the industry in 

**Luke:** Australia 

**Juen Phie:** for, for graduate accountants say that the owner doesn't actually 

**Luke:** make 

[00:50:00] any 

money. 

**Juen Phie:** On 

a graduate, unless I've worked with them 

**Luke:** for 

more 

than 

two 

years. 

**Juen Phie:** Yes, they've made money along the way, but if you think of 

**Luke:** how much time 

**Juen Phie:** we have invested in their training 

**Luke:** and 

the 

development, 

**Juen Phie:** it actually doesn't pay 

for 

our 

training 

and development. 

Yeah. We would make more money 

**Luke:** doing 

the job 

ourself. 

**Juen Phie:** So 

we really break even out 

the 

two 

year mark. 

So, 

you know, 

if I can 

retain an accountant 

past the two year mark, 

we've 

done 

really well. 

Okay.

If I can shorten the training timeframe to get a ROI on 

a staff at 

the 

three 

month mark, 

I've 

done 

really, 

really 

well. 

So, 

so even though we, we we're looking for a six 

month 

probation, right?

We gotta bring down 

**Luke:** a ROI 

**Juen Phie:** shorten the ROI curve. 

**Luke:** If not, 

it's 

actually 

really, 

really 

hard.

Well, it's, yeah.

Especially for scalability, right? If you ROI is two years, how, you know, how many can you have in the pipeline 

**Juen Phie:** at 

any 

given 

time? Correct. 

Correct. Yeah.

Correct. And so 

it's 

all 

about 

recruiting, well, training well, and a nice training 

program.

So, not without its room for improvements, but you know, so far we've 

been 

[00:51:00] able 

to get 

great hires 

**Luke:** from 

**Juen Phie:** overseas 

within that three month ROI 

target. 

**Luke:** Or shorter.

So I know you hire from multiple different countries. Are you able to kind of dive into that, the cultural differences, 

**Juen Phie:** what 

**Luke:** learned along 

the 

**Juen Phie:** way?

Yep. 

so we're now across Philippines, Indonesia, 

**Luke:** and 

Malaysia. 

**Juen Phie:** Malaysia we're just starting to hire now. So I can't really comment 

**Luke:** much 

on 

**Juen Phie:** that. '

Cause I haven't really hired, I've worked in Malaysia, but I haven't really hired 

**Luke:** in 

Malaysia. 

**Juen Phie:** The cultural differences between Malaysia and Indonesia sorry.

Philippines and 

**Luke:** Indonesia 

are 

very similar. 

**Juen Phie:** Very, very, 

very 

similar. when Indonesians 

**Luke:** come 

together, 

**Juen Phie:** there's actually less, less competition 

**Luke:** within each 

other. 

**Juen Phie:** They're actually, you know, like I'm, I'm from Indonesia, so my, my parents are from Indonesia. I was born in here 

in 

Australia. 

But the Indonesian culture 

**Luke:** is 

beautiful. 

**Juen Phie:** What holds 'em back is their English 

**Luke:** comprehension. 

**Juen Phie:** So if the English comprehension 

**Luke:** was better, 

**Juen Phie:** they would be on par 

**Luke:** with 

Philippines. 

**Juen Phie:** That's the only thing. So right now, what we're doing [00:52:00] heavily within our team is 

**Luke:** the ability 

to 

actually 

**Juen Phie:** help give them a platform 

**Luke:** to 

learn 

English,

**Juen Phie:** give

them, you know, weekend tutoring sessions 

**Luke:** you know, 

only 

**Juen Phie:** English.

If needed. The Indonesians can share Indonesian with each other, but try not to. 

So it's a bit deliberate. If, if we've got someone who's really struggling Okay. For the next three months, just talk Indonesian, get them to a point of ROI 

and then 

start phasing 

**Luke:** in 

English. 

So 

they 

build 

up their 

English 

skills.

Okay. And it's what's mandatory. They do tutoring 

**Juen Phie:** and 

stuff 

like 

that, 

or,

well, 

**Luke:** at 

this 

**Juen Phie:** point it's 

**Luke:** a bit 

**Juen Phie:** optional.

And we've gotta find a better way to teach them English,

**Luke:** because

**Juen Phie:** if you're looking at a price point versus 

**Luke:** the 

**Juen Phie:** Philippines, 

there are slight, not to say they're less, they're cheaper 

than 

Philippines, 

but for the same price, 

**Luke:** you actually 

get 

a better, 

**Juen Phie:** more experienced 

quality.

Okay.

So, 

**Luke:** so 

this is 

where,

so,

**Juen Phie:** so, 

**Luke:** or education slash experience is higher, but English proficiency is lower.

**Juen Phie:** Correct. 

It's actually interesting because they actually do one 

**Luke:** subject. 

**Juen Phie:** One that they do one subject a semester for 

**Luke:** the whole 

[00:53:00] year 

of English. 

**Juen Phie:** Yep. 

For primary 

**Luke:** school 

and 

high school, 

**Juen Phie:** but they're just 

**Luke:** not 

talking 

amongst themselves enough 

English.

Yeah. Look, DII would imagine different languages are also harder 

to 

switch. And 

I think 

there's a, I I would say, 

you 

can 

comment 

on 

this, 

there's 

a 

hell 

of a lot of 

more 

outsourcing from the Philippines. It, it's a culture there, right? I think a lot of people there want to, because America, a lot goes to the Philippines, right?

So there, there's a culture of, hey, you know, the job opportunities in the Philippines are fairly shit. 

We 

get 

treated 

poorly. 

We don't make 

any 

money. If we get good at English, then we have the opportunity to have access to that larger employment market. So it's more of a culture there. Whereas Indonesia, I don't think's there yet 

from 

**Juen Phie:** a 

cultural 

**Luke:** perspective.

Not yet. Not 

yet. 

So. It,

it, is not an industry there as much. It 

**Juen Phie:** is 

silent. but 

yeah.

if we, if we talk 

about 

Philippines, 

Philippines 

itself 

over time, 

**Luke:** if 

you 

go 

back 

in 

history 

**Juen Phie:** has been 

colonized multiple times by different countries, 

you 

know, 

the [00:54:00] Spanish, 

**Luke:** they're Americans, 

**Juen Phie:** the Japanese, now 

it's, 

you 

know, controlled 

**Luke:** by 

**Juen Phie:** right?

So there is this, 

**Luke:** call 

it, 

the submissive 

**Juen Phie:** culture in it where Yes, sir, 

**Luke:** Yes, 

sir, 

yes 

sir, yes sir.

**Juen Phie:** Right?

**Luke:** and they wanna follow. 

**Juen Phie:** So 

and at 

**Luke:** the 

same 

time, 

**Juen Phie:** because 

Filipinos, when you 

**Luke:** hire 

a 

Filipino, 

**Juen Phie:** you do not hire 

**Luke:** one 

person. 

**Juen Phie:** You are hiring 

**Luke:** a 

family. 

**Juen Phie:** And you're supporting an 

**Luke:** extended 

family. 

**Juen Phie:** So 

when 

**Luke:** you 

**Juen Phie:** that when you pay them, even a graduate, 

**Luke:** you 

hire 

**Juen Phie:** graduate, 

that graduate will be feeding 

their family 

with 

**Luke:** what 

you're 

giving 

them, 

**Juen Phie:** whether they're the eldest in the family or 

the young. That's 

why I always wanna know where 

in 

the 

family are they? What 

**Luke:** is 

the 

**Juen Phie:** matrix? Is the parents working?

Is the parents not working? I 

**Luke:** I want to know, 

and 

this 

is 

not

**Juen Phie:** for

any sinister motive, 

but 

me as 

**Luke:** an 

employer, 

**Juen Phie:** and this is where I sort of get 

**Luke:** emotional 

sometimes. I 

want 

**Juen Phie:** know when I stress at night, when 

**Luke:** I 

struggle 

**Juen Phie:** night, when 

**Luke:** I 

can't 

sleep 

**Juen Phie:** night,

**Luke:** who am I doing it for?

**Juen Phie:** Can see that I'm living emotional.

Right? No, that's fantastic. Because

I'm here to [00:55:00] transform the lives 

**Luke:** of 

**Juen Phie:** workers. 

I'm 

**Luke:** transforming 

the 

life. 

**Juen Phie:** I 

**Luke:** I want to know, 

is 

it 

worth it?

Mm-hmm. Because if

**Juen Phie:** if it's not worth it, 

**Luke:** what 

we're doing 

**Juen Phie:** And 

**Luke:** this 

is 

the 

thing 

**Juen Phie:** that 

it's 

hard for my team 

**Luke:** to 

actually 

see 

**Juen Phie:** it. 

They, 

they, you know, they go, oh, this is a boss.

He's just so super, so, 

**Luke:** so 

demanding, 

**Juen Phie:** but 

deep 

**Luke:** down 

inside, it's 

not, 

**Juen Phie:** yeah, 

it's the thing that drives me 

**Luke:** forward 

all 

the 

time. 

**Juen Phie:** it 

**Luke:** draws me 

forward.

**Juen Phie:** And and you gotta know 

who 

**Luke:** they 

are 

**Juen Phie:** and 

who are they actually 

**Luke:** working, 

**Juen Phie:** what, who are 

**Luke:** they working for?

And in

this way, 

I hope 

**Juen Phie:** to create a win-win win scenario where everyone wins.

**Luke:** It's a triple win. 

**Juen Phie:** And I hope that I can retain them so my training 

**Luke:** doesn't go 

**Juen Phie:** waste.

**Luke:** So 

**Juen Phie:** the key, 

when you 

**Luke:** that 

**Juen Phie:** they are a culture of Yes, 

**Luke:** yes, yes. 

But. 

**Juen Phie:** They are also 

**Luke:** a 

**Juen Phie:** where 

that Yes. Is not born 

**Luke:** out 

of 

**Juen Phie:** because 

they're 

**Luke:** blind 

to 

you. 

**Juen Phie:** it is not born out of ignorance 

**Luke:** of 

just 

**Juen Phie:** yes.

It's actually born out of the fact that 

I've 

just lent money [00:56:00] to my mom. I, sorry, I've given money to my mom and my mom's lent money to the auntie and their auntie's 

**Luke:** in 

hospital. 

**Juen Phie:** They're 

all collecting 

their money 

to put their family 

**Luke:** through 

hospital 

**Juen Phie:** because they've got diabetes, they've got pneumonia, they've got something. They're 

**Luke:** not 

saying 

yes 

**Juen Phie:** because they're 

**Luke:** trying 

to 

use 

their brain. 

**Juen Phie:** They're saying yes because 

they 

**Luke:** don't 

wanna get 

fired.

**Juen Phie:** They

want that paycheck. They need paycheck. 

And 

**Luke:** in 

doing 

**Juen Phie:** so, 

they can help that extended 

**Luke:** family 

get through 

**Juen Phie:** hospital. Yeah. 

You see, 

when you understand that 

**Luke:** pain. 

**Juen Phie:** The responsibility is actually on us 

**Luke:** as 

employers 

**Juen Phie:** to 

earn 

their 

trust. 

Why would someone be vulnerable 

to 

you 

**Luke:** if 

they 

think 

**Juen Phie:** their vulnerability is 

**Luke:** only 

going up? And get 

them 

sacked 

the 

next 

day?

Yeah. So, so this 

**Juen Phie:** is 

brilliant. 

This 

is 

where 

I wanted 

to 

**Luke:** go, 

right? So, and 

I haven't found this with all employees that I've had previously from the Philippines. And 

**Juen Phie:** I, do 

find 

**Luke:** culturally with a 

few other 

Southeast Asian and central Asian countries, right?

**Juen Phie:** So 

there's, 

there's 

**Luke:** the 

yes culture, right? 

But 

if [00:57:00] you put that next to 

the 

potential communication barriers, there's a lot of things that can be missed, right? So you, you think you've explained something and you've, they've gone, yes, yes, yes, I can do this. And then it doesn't, it doesn't pan out the way I, I expect it.

And like, I'm not blaming anybody. I, I take responsibility. One of my number 

one, jobs as a CEO is, you know, to be able to communicate values, tasks vision, all of that kind of stuff, right? So , , how do you combat that specific problem? Right? So you are communicating, you think you're heard, but you're not because of both the communication barrier and you know, the tendency for them not to say, sorry, can we slow down?

I don't understand. Or something like that. Do you have any tips 

**Juen Phie:** or trips to, 

**Luke:** to 

combat that 

specific 

issue? No, because that, 

that's 

a 

**Juen Phie:** huge one 

for 

me.

Do it early 

**Luke:** do 

it 

fast. 

**Juen Phie:** The thing 

is, I'm not gonna 

**Luke:** be 

here 

**Juen Phie:** to cry over 

**Luke:** a 

staff 

member. 

**Juen Phie:** If 

it's not 

the 

right 

staff member, I'm not here to 

have 

sleepless nights to build a better 

future 

for 

them.

**Luke:** If they're [00:58:00] not worth it, 

**Juen Phie:** I don't wanna know in three months time, in six 

months time 

that, 

**Luke:** they're not worth 

**Juen Phie:** worth it. I wanna know within the first two weeks. So this brings 

**Luke:** it 

back 

to induction. 

**Juen Phie:** If there's a failure to communicate, it's a failure because we as a firm 

hasn't 

haven't 

made it very clear 

**Luke:** during 

induction. 

**Juen Phie:** This is 

**Luke:** how 

we 

communicate 

**Juen Phie:** step 

**Luke:** one. 

You're 

**Juen Phie:** write it down. 

Step two, you're gonna 

**Luke:** repeat 

it 

back 

to 

me. 

**Juen Phie:** Step 

three, if you don't have any, 

**Luke:** and you are gonna 

**Juen Phie:** questions. 

**Luke:** Step 

four, 

**Juen Phie:** you're gonna be pushed during 

induction 

**Luke:** to 

fail. 

**Juen Phie:** And 

**Luke:** only 

when 

you 

fail 

**Juen Phie:** then you know that you're 

**Luke:** not 

gonna 

get 

sacked 

only 

through mistakes 

**Juen Phie:** that you can stand 

up 

on 

your 

two feet.

Because remember 

the 

values, right? So when, when we're training, 

we're 

training 

for values, 

team 

of underdogs that 

keeps 

on 

winning, 

we're 

gonna train 

you 

until 

you win. 

But during that training process, 

you think 

**Luke:** you 

are 

an 

underdog.

So, so you're training, just lemme get this, right? So you're, you, you're trying to train or instill the value 

**Juen Phie:** of 

**Luke:** things 

will 

go wrong.

Everything's okay, you've still got your job. We're gonna pick, pick ourselves back up and keep moving. 

Correct. 

Because 

otherwise 

there's that 

fear [00:59:00] of, you know, repercussions like losing your job and you can't actually have the conversations that 

**Juen Phie:** you 

need 

to 

**Luke:** be 

able 

to 

**Juen Phie:** have Correct. on 

a regular 

basis.

And the thing is, 

**Luke:** it's 

our 

values. 

**Juen Phie:** We are only living by values and we're only trading by values.

And we're hiring by, everything's 

**Luke:** value based. 

**Juen Phie:** So you know, you will win because 

**Luke:** us 

as 

a 

**Juen Phie:** team

**Luke:** help you win. 

**Juen Phie:** you win. 

And 

by you winning, we win. We all win together. We a team. I've 

gone through 

it. 

**Luke:** And someone helped win, so I'm 

**Juen Phie:** now doing it to you. 

**Luke:** it 

helps 

you 

win. 

**Juen Phie:** And then the under, you know, and the battlers that takes the punches and keeps standing 

bouncing 

**Luke:** back, 

**Juen Phie:** keep 

on bouncing back.

Keep. It's okay, it's okay, it's okay. Keep on bouncing 

back, keep 

on 

bouncing back. You never got sacked through this. This 

**Luke:** a 

learning process.

**Juen Phie:** So

when they come out of induction 

and 

they 

**Luke:** come 

into, 

**Juen Phie:** into working in the respective 

**Luke:** departments, 

**Juen Phie:** they're already been trained and conditioned 

for what 

it's 

gonna be.

**Luke:** And then it's easy. 

**Juen Phie:** Shoot for the stars 

during 

two weeks. 

Let 

**Luke:** them 

relax 

afterwards. 

**Juen Phie:** If I had to beg you if the first two weeks was a beg and 

**Luke:** a chore 

**Juen Phie:** me, I'm gonna beg you get to get productivity all throughout 

your career. 

Yeah. I'm 

not 

here to 

beg [01:00:00] you 

**Luke:** get 

**Juen Phie:** productivity. 

And that's not how we hit our KPIs.

That's not how I make money 

**Luke:** to 

bring 

my 

money 

**Juen Phie:** and co-invest 

**Luke:** in 

opportunities. 

**Juen Phie:** That's 

how 

**Luke:** I'm 

gonna 

not 

make 

money.

Okay. So earn, earn your place in the team and once you're in the team, hire 

**Juen Phie:** rewards. 

Let's 

do 

this 

together,

let's 

do 

it together. 

That's how we transform lives. So, you know, we 

**Luke:** don't 

**Juen Phie:** to, 

**Luke:** we, 

we 

**Juen Phie:** to 

pay more than what people 

should 

be paid.

So all the ones that have stayed with me 

more than 

two years ends 

up 

owning houses or 

two houses. 

Like they're just highly 

paid, 

**Luke:** full 

stop. 

**Juen Phie:** They're 

**Luke:** good 

at 

what 

**Juen Phie:** doing 

and, 

and, and I'm really 

proud of '

**Luke:** em, 

you 

know? 

**Juen Phie:** And, and 

**Luke:** this 

is 

where

**Juen Phie:** it's

my continual vision to give 

back. 

It's a give back.

Give back is a, it's always a give back process. 

**Luke:** Yeah.

Cool. I 

**Juen Phie:** appreciate 

you. 

Thanks for 

coming 

on 

**Luke:** the 

show. 

**Juen Phie:** Hey,

**Luke:** pleasure.

a legend. 

[01:01:00]